Ep45: Human-Centred Leadership & Resilience - How to Build Sustainable High Performance with Lisa Boyd
Unlock the secrets to building sustainable high performance and preventing burnout with human-centred leadership strategies that actually work. In this energizing episode, we dive deep into the real-world challenges leaders face in today’s high-pressure workplaces—exploring actionable ways to prioritize wellbeing, nurture resilience, and create thriving teams that deliver commercial results.
Executive coach and former solicitor Lisa Boyd joins Helen Wada to share compelling stories and expert insights from her two decades of helping professional leaders break the cycle of overwork, set healthy boundaries, and adapt to fast-changing business environments. You’ll discover how leaders can use psychological know-how to boost performance without sacrificing humanity, why adaptability and honest conversations are the new superpowers, and what every generation—Gen Z to Boomers—needs to collaborate and grow together.
Learn practical coaching tools for reframing negative self-talk, tips for understanding your personal values, and small daily habits to safeguard your energy. Whether you’re an overworked high-performing professional, a business leader seeking to drive results through people, or anyone curious about the future of sustainable leadership, this episode arms you with the mindset and methods for lasting success. Listen now and start building your commercial advantage—the human way!
Topics Discussed:
Human-centred leadership and resilience
Building sustainable high performance
Impact of organizational culture change
Importance of emotional intelligence skills
Strategies for managing workplace burnout
Timestamps:
00:00 From Lawyer to Executive Coach
03:52 Challenging Profit-Driven Work Culture
08:28 Coaching for Personal and Systemic Growth
10:39 Personal Sustainability Through Self-Talk
15:20 Enhancing Client Communication Strategies
17:53 Adapting to Leadership Communication Styles
22:22 "Coaching Skills in Business"
23:09 Embrace Unscripted Conversations
27:28 Bridging Generational Communication Gaps
32:24 Redefining Resilience Beyond Perseverance
35:42 "Aligning Career with Personal Values"
39:00 "Finding the Right Time"
39:43 Daily Intentions Enhance Personal Presence
Read the episode blog here
About Lisa Boyd:
Learn more about Citrus Coaching
Lisa is an EMCC accredited Executive coach at Senior Practitioner level. She has a multi-disciplinary practice delivering executive coaching, workshops and training. With a client centered approach, her focus is helping people be the best they can be so they, in turn, make the biggest positive difference for themselves, their people and society. She creates a trusted and confidential space where clients can explore and work on their challenges, be they personal or organisational.
Lisa has extensive experience, working across a variety of sectors coaching leaders and developing professionals in multinationals, SMEs, Professional Service firms, the English football Premier League, NHS, and Government. She also works with individuals in career transition or facing major change. Lisa is based in the UK and she has worked with clients in Australia, Europe, Africa, Asia, United States and the Middle East.
Lisa’s coaching is based on her commercial experience including working as a Solicitor for ten years, specialising in intellectual property and commercial litigation both in private practice and in-house. She made the transition to coaching in 2007 and Citrus Coaching was formed in 2011 upon returning from living for 2 years in Sydney, Australia.
Lisa’s approach is catalytic and supportive; she helps her clients to raise self-awareness and to meet challenges so that they can reach their full potential. She is positive, encouraging and empathetic and focuses on developing others. She helps clients achieve challenging goals, build resilience, manage relationships and conflict, and helps them problem solve and plan for change using EQ, NLP and Systemic approaches as well as coaching outdoors when possible.
In evaluations the top things clients have reported benefitting from are: improved leadership and relationships, increased self-confidence, better emotional self-control, improved communication, influencing skills and reduced stress. Her clients tell her they value her practical and pragmatic approach.
Lisa won the “Mentor of the Year 2022” award from the English football Premier League for her work coaching in the Coach Institute Development Programme.
Coach education and training
Lisa has a BSc. (Hons) in Psychology with Urban Policy and Management, a coaching diploma and an Advanced Diploma in Transformational Coaching.
Continuously learning and developing herself, Lisa has trained in other methodologies including Nancy Kline’s Time to Think, Transactional Analysis 101 and is a Master Practitioner of NLP. She is a registered qualified test user of the BPS (level A & B) and is trained in a variety of psychometrics.
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Ep45: Human-Centred Leadership & Resilience - How to Build Sustainable High Performance with Lisa Boyd
[00:00:00]
Introduction and Guest Welcome
Helen Wada: Hello and welcome to another episode of Human Wise. I'm absolutely delighted to have this lady with me today. Lisa and I met about five years ago. Whilst we were training on our advanced diploma in transformational coaching is when I was starting up my own business, and Lisa and I immediately connected.
She is one of the best coaches that I've ever worked with. I'm delighted to have her me now with the Human Advantage and [00:01:00] some of the work that we've been doing together. But on her own right, Lisa is a former solicitor. She has an executive coaching practice where she works with professional services leaders, entrepreneurs, CEOs, to help them take their careers to the level that, that they want to.
Lisa, welcome to the show. I'm sure you can tell your career history and story a lot better than I can, but great to have you on human wise.
Lisa Boyd: Thank you so much, Helen, and that's a rather wonderful introduction that I've now got to try and live up to, but thank you. Okay. So yes, in terms of my background, you're right, was a former solicitor and set up my own executive coaching company about 17 years ago now. So I worked in law for about 10 years and it was really the sort of coming back to my roots because my half of my first degree was psychology.
And so coming back to that is what led me into coaching, because what I really saw in law. Was that brilliant People [00:02:00] were leading teams and you know, sort of expecting to manage people without having any of the training or skills that you know, you might expect them to have. And I just saw that was really missing and obviously they were also potentially missing the human skills.
Obviously what people tend to call soft skills these days, but sort of communication skills or how to give feedback effectively, that kind of thing.
The Importance of Human Skills in Leadership
Lisa Boyd: So it was really about wanting to understand how people thrive at work and how we can lead in a much more human way. That led me down the coaching path.
And yes, in terms of my coaching now, it is about helping leaders to operate at their best, but it's also how they can help their teams and their people to develop as best they can as well.
Helen Wada: And I think it's fabulous. And the way that you say that, I mean, I, it just shows. Where you and I were aligned and when we connected. 'cause actually we [00:03:00] similar backgrounds, albeit, you know, I was in, in the finance world, you were in the legal world. But having that human at the heart and focusing not just on individuals, but how they grow themselves, how they develop themselves, how they grow their teams, but also how they grow their businesses as well.
Because it's not just doing things for, you know, nice sake actually. We are in the commercial world and we want to be growing our businesses to serve more people, to do great work. We need to build that growth into it. And I think that's where we really connected on the human, that human advantage, right?
Lisa Boyd: Yeah, absolutely.
Helen Wada: advantage your commercial advantage. How can we dive deeper,
loads to talk about. I kick off with one question that, that I ask my guests. does being human at work mean to you? You mentioned human a couple of times there, but what
Mean to you?
Lisa Boyd: Yeah, it's interesting going back to what you were just sort of summarizing on there as well, and that brings it into this, in that actually [00:04:00] it's using that psychology about human behavior to enhance performance. So as you said, you know, we. We are working in businesses that want profit, they want great outcomes.
Challenges in Professional Environments
Lisa Boyd: So it is about recognizing whether that's in law or any other business, that being human is about understanding that behind any deadline, any matter that we are dealing with any decision is a person. And so I guess it's about really challenging a culture where. It's all about profit. And also that can lead to a culture that almost glorifies burnout because.
In law particularly, it can be a badge of honor. You know, how many hours you've worked. In fact, only a couple of weeks ago I was with a team and one of them said they just worked [00:05:00] 28 hours straight. And it's like, how can you do that? You can't, it's not sustainable quite obviously. So. For me, being human is about creating a sort of empathetic space.
A balanced space, and I guess one where you can have honest conversations about what it really takes to have a sustainable and meaningful career. I.
Helen Wada: And it's interesting, that's where, you know, we come to that commercial focus and a coaching. Approach because you are right. There are still businesses today where people are working excessive hours. You know, we hear the statistics about workplace wellbeing, work, case culture. We're at an all time low and we are in 2025. And when I first started this podcast, you know, part of me was like, why do we need to be talking about human at work? Really everybody's human at work, but I think. As we look at particularly certain professions and the legal profession is one of [00:06:00] those, it's not exclusive for that, but actually there is really still that disconnect we are not, we know we need to be better in an organization.
We know we need to be thinking about our people. We know that's not sustainable, but the commercial pressures drive a different sets of behaviors. I guess I'm just curious from where you've, you know, all of your experience, the work that you are doing right now, and I know you focus on this a lot.
Strategies for Sustainable Work Practices
Helen Wada: What can we be doing to start to break some of these barriers down? Because it's not sustainable. It's not sustainable because gener I think we'll come onto the different generations in a moment but those generations coming up behind us won't be doing what maybe you and I did when we first trained.
Lisa Boyd: Absolutely. And I think, you know, the reality is that it is a systemic issue and it isn't just law, as you say, and every organization I go into. [00:07:00] They're grappling with the same problem. They need their people to do more with less resource in less time. You know, and that's, that goes on everywhere. So I think the only way of really challenging that kind of culture has to be collective and systemic.
But the problem is it comes down to the individual. Who manages the impact of that burnout. So it's like, where do you start chicken or egg? Because you've gotta help people at an individual level. And that's where I help in terms of coaching. But organizations have to have some kind of systemic way of working out how they change culture if this is what's happening for them.
Helen Wada: And you're right. It. is what I talk about from the human advantage. You know, it's a two-pronged approach almost.
Helping the individual understand what's important to them, what they as an [00:08:00] individual can do about things. Giving them confidence to maybe push back and say no, and set boundaries. And yes, you know, we are talking about AI and. Will come in to, to help us become more efficient. But the reality is, unless people can carve time out of their diaries to figure out how this technology can help them you're just adding another thing on the bottom of the to-do list. Right?
Lisa Boyd: Yeah, absolutely.
Helen Wada: And I've spoken to an,
Lisa Boyd: Being at work with this AI coming through, it's a whole nother conversation, isn't it?
Helen Wada: It's another lens and it starts for me with that individual.
The Role of Coaching in Personal and Professional Growth
Helen Wada: About helping them to understand who they are, what's important to them, how they show up, and creating the boundaries that are right for them. Because I think, you know, what I talk about, what we've talked about in some of the other podcasts and through the book that I'm getting there almost finished you just keep going and keep going. and what coaching does and you know this as well as I do, is creates that space for people to actually think. [00:09:00] And for some people like, well, what do you mean space to think? But it literally is that it's space for you to think about where you are going, what's your vision? How do you show up? It comes back to the h of the human, right. How do you show up to then flip into a what are we doing to serve our customers? And so it's starting with the individual, then parallel to that. The responsibility is with the boards and leadership, well, broadly, the leadership teams, to think, well, what does this mean Systemically, it's all very well and good.
You and I can coach individual people, but unless as a collective, we take a step back and say, what conditions are we creating? And these aren't easy questions to answer, right.
Lisa Boyd: Well, and not particularly you know, if I go back to law firms, because of course that pressure is coming from the clients, you know, it's the client's demands. I. That create the, you know, [00:10:00] sort of huge pressured environments that all law lawyers are under. And so obviously the law firms want to service their clients.
And so if the client's demanding really quick turnaround times, that's what they're gonna get. So yeah, it's a really difficult one.
Helen Wada: So given that it's really difficult and you work with a lot of people across a lot of sectors, what are some of the tips and conversations that you having that obviously you can share in this environment that where you are seeing that and what coaching is unlocking for them? 'cause if I'm a listener, it's like, okay, yeah, I get this.
This
Me. What do I need to be thinking about?
Lisa Boyd: Yeah. Gosh. I mean, it's just such a vast subject, isn't it, in terms of how you can you know, help yourself to, be more sustainable in your work? I work at an individual level with that. Obviously I don't have any sway about, you know, the system that I'm working in terms of changing [00:11:00] culture.
I know other coaches do, you know, and they'll go in and work with teams, but I work at an individual level. I think the things that. Seem to have most impact are helping people to understand how they're talking to themselves. So that's metacognition. Understand what they're saying to themselves and then thinking about whether that's true or not.
So it might be you know. Saying to themselves, oh gosh, you know, I can't do this. I haven't got the time to do this. Okay, let's break that down. In CBT, come to behavioral therapy terms. This is called catch challenge change. So you catch the thought. What you actually saying to yourself, oh, I really haven't got time.
I can't do this. So you've caught it. Challenge it. I haven't got the time. Okay, so where can I make time? How can I, you know, you're just challenging that I can't do this. Okay, do I have the capability or, you know, it's [00:12:00] like just challenging what you are actually saying to yourself and then change it. So this is where a reframe in coaching would come in.
So we're gonna reframe how we're talking to ourselves and what we're saying. So actually yes, I can make time. I've got one hour this afternoon between meetings that should be sufficient and yes, I can do it. I do need to speak to a couple of colleagues to understand I. You know, where I find the precedent or you know, what I need in order to do this piece of work.
So I do find that sort of understanding and challenging what you are thinking because we all have many unhelpful things that we say to ourselves. And there's a long list of them that, you know, I can go through. So from things like I don't know, black and white thinking. So I either do this perfectly or I don't do it at all,
And just recognizing that's what you are saying to yourself can really help to reduce the [00:13:00] sort of tension you put on yourself and the pressure that you're putting on yourself.
Helen Wada: I think that's right. I think those are two lovely examples because we often say, you know, we can't change, you know, it's because of the client demands, but ultimately is a lot that we do need to take responsibility for ourselves. It's that how we show up, it's. There are multiple priorities. You know, I love the really simple, but the urgent important good. You know, is it urgent and is it important?
Lisa Boyd: Absolute.
Helen Wada: and if not, you know, where does it fit in one of those quadrants and what do we have to drop? Because actually can't do everything. We are not human. You know, I find people I work with, you know, like pushing back but the reality is. Are we at a life and death situation? I know in some deals, you know, it really is time pressured, but actually for a lot of things, if you say, does that have to be done this afternoon? Or can it wait till [00:14:00] Monday? If it can wait till Monday, more than often you're not, you can push it out. What format does that need to be in?
You know, I used to see in my consulting time, people would prepare hours of PowerPoint slides, hours and hours, when actually an email would do.
Lisa Boyd: Absolutely.
Helen Wada: and so I think there's something about, talk about fra, but yes, there's a systemic thing, but there is also a lot that we can do as individuals if we're truly honest with ourselves. But we have to dig deep.
Lisa Boyd: Yeah,
Helen Wada: be self-confident in who we are, how we show up, what we're driving for, so that you can set those boundaries and make those decisions when they crop up.
Lisa Boyd: absolutely. And to your point it's a lot about. Understanding expectations. So if you can, you know, in your example, they've done hours and hours of work on a PowerPoint and a quick email will have done, well actually, if you just had a human conversation with whoever was [00:15:00] asking you to do the work and said, what outcome do you want from this?
Do you want the five bullet points or do you want a 10 pager? So actually you're gonna help yourself by having those human conversations at the outset to understand expectations and help you to manage your own time by understanding those expectations.
Helen Wada: And that comes back into the whole sales, Peter Lisa, that you and I collaborate on where we are helping experts. To be more confident in the market, to be having bolder conversations with their clients, to be understanding what they really want. You know, it's the understanding others, it's the you of the human in the human framework. Part of that, understanding others is understanding where they're coming from. And that's not just come where they're coming from a goals perspective or a, you know, personal objectives point of view, or even the system that they're operating in. It's actually about understanding. What format do they like stuff in? How can you create that connection? How can you make it [00:16:00] easy for them? But if you don't ask, you are making assumptions. I was, I had lunch with a guy the other day and he's dyslexic and actually we were talking about the reading of my manuscript and he said, he's like, do you know what I, you know, he uses audio books actually reading is challenging for him. I get that right. There's so many different neuro neurodiversity conditions that we are now aware of that maybe we weren't when you and I started our practices 25, 30 years ago. But they're not all visible and too often we make assumptions that get in our way developing those great relationships and ultimately revenue for ourselves and our businesses.
Lisa Boyd: I think that's very true, isn't it? And I think if we. We are more flexible about the way we work with different types of people. That's how we are gonna get the best out of everybody. So is that flexibility, that adaptability [00:17:00] and not a, you know, one size fits all?
Adapting Leadership Styles
Lisa Boyd: And that's certainly something I talk about in leadership because particularly again from the legal sphere.
People don't always recognize that there isn't just one style of leadership. You have to flex for the person that's in front of you at any given time. You can't lead in one way. It doesn't work.
Helen Wada: It's comes. It's that adaption,
You act and adapt when you are when you're in the room. Just diving deeper into that for a moment, again, you know, some people may do this naturally. Some people may listen to this and think, oh, I find that really hard. What are some of the things that you encourage people to do to firstly get comfortable with who they are going into that room? And then secondly, you know, adapting based upon who you find once you get there.
Lisa Boyd: So it's a lot around communication styles and preferences and really sort of picking up on that, [00:18:00] listening to people. Very deeply to, you know, understand what their preferences are in communications. So, you know, from a command and control style leader, actually, if they really only want the bare minimum back in terms of bullet points, actually, if you are maybe a more junior person recognizing that from the leader, you might go into that meeting with them.
With your bullet points ready, but you've got the detail there to bring with you. It's there either, you know, as a backup document or in your head, but you know, you go in with those bullet points. So understanding those different sort of preferences. If you've got somebody that actually really likes the sound of their own voice, they love chatting, they love, you know, sort of asking you loads of questions and they're perhaps quite inspirational.
Then you're not gonna go in with a bullet point. You are going to go in and give them more of [00:19:00] yourself and talk about yourself as well. So just learning to recognize those different styles can be a really good starting place.
Helen Wada: Yeah, and I always come back to, but you know, it, it still starts with ourselves because actually we need to tap into who we are. To recognize that to it's drawing on the emotional intelligence, isn't it? It's drawing on what we are noticing, what we're sensing, what we are all feeling to step out of your comfort zone and go with the flow almost.
Lisa Boyd: Yeah
and that's not always easy. You know, not everybody has those skills, but they can be learned. And that's the brilliant thing about emotional intelligence. You know, you can learn those skills and the earlier you start to learn it and practice it and then use it, the better you are gonna be in the long run as a leader.
The Coaching Approach in Practice
Helen Wada: And I, I think, you know, you can learn it, but I think there is a way of which you are learning, and I think that, [00:20:00] I know you and I agree on this around the coaching approach. not you. You can have awareness around it from a classroom perspective, but really the deep work starts through yourself.
It is that coaching approach because actually are trying things out. You're stepping out of your comfort zone
Lisa Boyd: Yeah.
Helen Wada: and you're trying things that are new,
And then you need to reflect to say, well, how was that?
Lisa Boyd: Yeah, absolutely.
Helen Wada: that is absolutely a coaching approach with the support of whether it's a, an executive coach or whether it's a peer or a mentor or somebody else,
Lisa Boyd: Yeah.
Helen Wada: but helping you to think of, well, what do I need to do different?
Lisa Boyd: And that's why I sort of feel so strongly that when coaching it's. So helpful for that person to know it's okay if it doesn't work. You know, they've gotta go and try these things. They've gotta experiment with them, and then it's safe if it doesn't work, because it was just an experiment. We were gonna see if it's [00:21:00] gonna work or not.
I had a wonderful client many years ago now. Who was quite a hierarchical leader and he just wanted to make sure that everything he did and said was kind of. That's how it was gonna be. And so everything had to be perfect. He almost scripted meetings because that's how he wanted everything to be.
And we worked on this, we challenged this and how he could be more of a relational leader and show up more authentically and be more human. So even things like when he was recruiting and interviewing people, he'd have a script that he wanted to, you know, sort of work to completely and, obviously for him it was a huge change, a huge shift, and he really did do the hard yards.
He went out and he tried it. He tried it first with an interview 'cause he felt that was safe 'cause it was somebody that didn't know him.
Helen Wada: Yeah.
Lisa Boyd: And he didn't, I, he said I didn't have a script, I had [00:22:00] nothing. I just had a conversation with this interviewee, and how did it go brilliantly. And from there, that gave him the confidence to then experiment again.
Go into a meeting with no script, and just to listen to what the team was saying and to bounce his ideas off of that. And, you know, it was brilliant. It worked brilliantly.
Helen Wada: And ironically what you're talking about is a coaching approach, right? You are not coaching, but actually that is the skill and that's why I'm so passionate about. the skill of coaching into the full commercial world. Yes, we talk about it in organizations, but it, for me, it really hasn't reached its full potential because what coaching, the skill of coaching is about that questioning.
It's about that listening. It's about creating the safe space where you can challenge a script, without an agenda. I mean, I was on a podcast a few weeks ago and I was on it rather than hosting it for change. [00:23:00] The guys interviewing me that, you know, do you not plan all your conversations with clear questions?
I was like, no I have a goal, I have an objective of where I want to go. And then we follow the conversation. And for me, there's something about if things are scripted, you know, that's not to say I'm not planning and preparing. So those are two different things.
But if you have a script of questions. question is, what are you missing in the room? By following that list you miss you miss something else that, you know, we are listening to go onto the next point on the agenda rather than being truly curious in terms of understanding where they're coming from and that is so relevant when we talk about influencing others. And sell it.
You know, whether you are trying to influence another team or another department to get people to rally around something or whether you are trying to collaborate partner with [00:24:00] somebody outside of your org organization, you need to know where they're coming from. And to do that, you need to be sitting back and you need to be listening
Lisa Boyd: Yeah.
Helen Wada: And that some of that is not pre-planning it, it's kind of seeing what emerges.
And you are, we said it earlier, but it's.
Navigating Uncertainty in the Modern Workplace
Helen Wada: It's difficult for some people and that's understandable because a lot of people train in professions about it needs to be right. And a lot of this is uncertain and I think even more relevant in the organizations that we're in now and the world economy, you don't, you know, you wake up every day and you dunno what's gonna be on the news, do you? And so as we think ahead, we need to be thinking about how do I deal with this uncertainty? It comes back to your point around. Burnout and about resilience. I think a lot of the burnout is being caused because there's that level of uncertainty that people are dealing with and we are not really prepared for it.
Lisa Boyd: Yes, I think that's very true, and in terms of that level of uncertainty. [00:25:00]
Generational Differences in the Workforce
Lisa Boyd: I going back to your kind of generational differences, you know, new people coming into the workforce now, they're not necessarily prepared for the working world in quite the same way. You know, they've been through very different experiences than you and I have been through.
They went through the pandemic, which massively had an impact on them, their education. The ability to get even work experience. So actually their first time coming into a corporate environment might be their first day of work. You know, and imagine what that feels like. The uncertainty of what they're coming into.
Yeah.
Helen Wada: And I think it's interesting you touch on the new generation because I work with number, you know, you senior, mid-level leaders are looking at the generations coming through and getting a lot of pushback in terms of expectations and trying to get them to. Maybe come into the office more or to learn on the role on the job, or [00:26:00] are you seeing from a generational perspective in terms of the, there a mismatch between expectations on both sides, or do you think there's an expectation gap being created by noise?
Lisa Boyd: I think there are some, certainly some things that research has shown there is a difference. So I think there's been research to show that definitely there is less self-awareness amongst the newish generation coming into work. I saw a stat saying something like 54% of employers we're saying that actually they're just not as self-aware.
And there also seems to be a communications. Gap as well both verbally and written. So in terms of verbal communication employers were sort of saying they're not you know, they haven't got the sort of language that we're used to speaking in corporate world and in written communication even more so.
You know, that's sort of more formal written communication, particularly amongst school leavers, perhaps not [00:27:00] quite so much from graduate level sort of students coming in. So there, there's a definite difference. I think the other space where we can obviously see it is they were brought up with the tech, you know, and we weren't, you know, I don't know, you're a little bit younger than me, but.
We, you know, we still had fax machines and snail mail when I was a junior lawyer. And we didn't have email until several years in you know, my time as being a solicitor. So those kind of tech challenges I think make a difference and the way that they want to communicate. So the younger generations, it's all about speed of.
Communication because they just want a quick one-liner over WhatsApp or whatever particular technology they're using where I still would like a nice email that I can read on a big screen, not looking at some tiny phone. You know, so there are definite differences, but I think you are absolutely right about the noise because I think that.[00:28:00]
There, there are stereotypes aren't there? And Gen Z in particular, I think have been stereotyped as being you know, not able to communicate well and not wanting to work and pushing back quite a lot. I hear this from law firms, you know, actually they're pushing back quite a lot. So I think those stereotypes aren't helpful.
And again, in a, in an organizational setting, and from a systemic point of view, it's about using inclusive language and not, you know, sort of making it about Gen Z versus Gen X or baby boomers or anything like that. But bringing together people and using the differences and using that diversity.
To help the organization. So,
Helen Wada: yeah.
Lisa Boyd: Bringing in a younger person that's gonna help me with understanding AI or any, you know, form of tech that I've not come across before is obviously gonna be really helpful. And then I may be able to help them in terms of, I don't know, [00:29:00] stakeholder management and what that might look like and more formal communications.
So, yeah.
Helen Wada: I think it, it comes into that, you know, and we talk about it a lot in the programs that we talk that adult conversation,
You know, rather than thinking. I can't do it. Or it's the noise in your mind. You know, they're not listening to me. I want this. They're not listening to me on both sides of the coin.
Right. But actually being grown up about it and having conversations to say, where do we need to get to? because on the one hand, the people coming through can have different ideas. The organizations need to be agile responding to different ways of doing things, to be more efficient, with them, to collaborate. So, and taking personal responsibility. There's no, if you think about where careers go, we even know where our careers are gonna go, but it's not the job of the organization to provide all of that for you. It's about showing up and taking ownership and exploring what's important [00:30:00] to you and where you want to go and putting yourself out there to explore the opportunities that may be given to you. And I think it's harder these days. You know, there's fewer graduate jobs and it's, you then need to, comes back to the skills of selling IT. Skills of influencing. You need to be having these conversations, the communication to be able to say who are you? What's important to you, where do you wanna go?
Lisa Boyd: Yeah, absolutely. And that again, is where I see some, you know, sort of cross generational at a organizational level being really helpful because of course you can do reverse mentoring. You can have. You know, the younger people mentoring older and vice versa. And where I could have a career conversation with somebody about where do you wanna go?
What matters to you. They can give me something very different. So, yeah, I think it's really helpful to work cross generationally as much as possible.
The Importance of Resilience
Helen Wada: And it, it comes back to that [00:31:00] point about actually you need to be resilient. The organization needs to be resilient to keep going but also the individual, it's not just about being resilient once you get into the work,
But that's, it's about being resilient to to kick off to go into places where don't know you need to explore. resilience can mean a lot of things to a lot of people. What do you mean by resilience? When we talk about that word what comes up for you?
Lisa Boyd: In the sort of workplaces that I've been in or worked in, and the ones I work with now. For me, it's really about how you can work sustainably under pressure
Helen Wada: Yeah.
Lisa Boyd: before doing what I do now. I would've talked about it as being able to bounce back. You know, after a setback or after, you know, failure, but there is no kind of necessarily big setback now.
It's just constant pressure in most organizations. So actually I think it is [00:32:00] that ability just to work sustainably through that pressure because it's not gonna go away. As much as we love, would love organizations to think how they can reduce the amount of pressure they're putting on their people, as I say, because.
That pressure comes from the clients and customers. Ultimately, it's not really likely to go away. So for me, it's how you can work sustainably through it.
Helen Wada: I think that. That isn't just about pushing through, is it Lisa? I mean, I was having a conversation with somebody this morning who had been in an investment banking situation for years and years, and we talked about how we just kept going. And I think if you rewound the clock five, 10 years, was about just keeping going.
You know, you just keep going and going but it's not,
Lisa Boyd: You can't.
Helen Wada: It's really important to acknowledge that resilience is not just about keeping going.
Lisa Boyd: Yeah.
Helen Wada: It's about what drives you. There's a brilliant book by Lisa around the body [00:33:00] Budget. And she talks about, you know, what gives you energy and what takes your energy away?
Lisa Boyd: Yeah.
Helen Wada: And it's about understanding that from a psychological perspective, from a, from your brain in terms of. We need to find those things that give us energy, whether that's at work, whether it's outside of work, and it's knowing when to take a step back to be able to go again. And so it is not, nobody keeps going without burnout.
Lisa Boyd: Absolutely. And that's the issue, isn't it? There's a great HBR article, I'm sure you probably know it, manage your energy, not your time. And it's, you know, absolutely. It's thinking about the different domains in where you get energy from or where it's going to be drained from. So obviously the foundation is your physical energy, so sleep, diet, all of those good things.
And those are the basics. We don't always do them that well, you know, so we know it, but we don't always do it. So there's the sort of physical energy [00:34:00] side in terms of that resilience. And we could probably all do better or not all. I know some people are very good at it, but I know I'm not. So, so you've got those basic blocks, but then you've got your emotional energy.
You know, what drains you emotionally? Perhaps it's around, you know, values alignment at work, or maybe that's about the people you are working with. They may give you energy, they may drain you of energy, so there's that emotional energy. And then there's that mind energy as well. So cognitive energy.
How much, you know, energy do you get from deep thinking tasks over doing all of that kind of daily churn work? Because we all get thousands of emails every day. So how are you managing that type of energy? Are you time blocking to make sure you've got time to do the deep thinking work? That's actually gonna add value.
Or are you just kind of churning through a load of emails and going to meetings and really not achieving that much. And then finally is the spiritual energy piece they talk about. [00:35:00] And you know, that might look like actual faith for you. So if you've got faith, that can bring you energy, but it might be about meditation, mindfulness, those kind of things as well.
And also coming back to values. When we are thinking about what gives you that kind of more spiritual energy, working in alignment with your values is going to feel so much more positive than working in an environment where your values are not aligned.
Helen Wada: So much there, so much richness. Where do we start? Where does, again, we are thinking about it, saying, okay, how do I manage this energy? Sort of the one thing where you would say, do you know what, where do I start with this?
Lisa Boyd: I often do start with values, actually, I think particularly when I'm doing career coaching with people because. It's often the thing that gets them to realize what's happening for them in the workplace and why their energy is drained or why they're not enjoying work as much as they used [00:36:00] to, what's going on for them.
So really understanding what matters most to them in their career can often kind of pinpoint are that's why. I'm actually feeling quite drained at the moment. Perhaps the culture's changed at work or the people have changed at work and my values just aren't now being honored in what I'm doing. So that might mean thinking about changing outta that environment or thinking about how you can bring those values into what you are doing.
I think a really lovely example is, you know, I don't know, say a cleaner in a hospital. Thinking about what matters to them most is their values of making sure they're helping people. How does cleaning the hospital help? Or quite obviously, if they're saying to themselves going in on a daily basis that actually I'm gonna make sure that there are no germs because I've cleaned it really well, I'm gonna help those patients [00:37:00] ultimately.
So it's just a framing of how your values can actually then be honored in what you are doing.
Helen Wada: And it's, I love the way that it's about asking a question you know, we talk about the power of questions, and I'm gonna come onto that in a moment. I'm conscious of time, actually. But does it mean, you know, through your values and what does that mean for you? And asking yourself that question.
And either through exploratory writing, you and I talk about, you know, journaling or working with a coach or working with a colleague, asking yourself some questions. You often don't need a coach. You can almost answer them for themselves. 'cause you know the answer is within you. We just need to pause and give our space, ourselves space about some of this stuff.
Lisa Boyd: Yeah.
Helen Wada: And where are you headed? What does it mean for me? How do we manage all of this stuff going on around us in this crazy world?
Final Thoughts and Reflections
Helen Wada: Lisa we could talk for ages. I'm conscious of time. So much richness there and really appreciate you joining [00:38:00] and sharing some of your insights from experience as a solicitor in law and in the coaching world. as we wrap up, what do you think? I always ask the guests sort of one top tip and one question for them to reflect on.
Lisa Boyd: Okay.
Helen Wada: conversation today, what might you leave us with?
Lisa Boyd: So the top tip I think comes outta what you were saying. It's not about just pushing through really to have that sustainability. So it's about building micro sort of habits that are gonna keep you sustainable. So think about what little things you can do through the day, because I think it can often feel counterintuitive to take a break.
Actually, if you take a break, we know you are then gonna perform better afterwards. So what can you build in, you know, those small habits that you can start to do. And it might also be about getting into some kind of routine. We know morning routines, for example, can really help you [00:39:00] set up the day well.
Helen Wada: Going to the gym. It's like, you know, you've sat I've had days where I've sat in my gym kit all day 'cause I haven't done it first thing and I've got distracted.
Lisa Boyd: yeah.
Helen Wada: Then I get to the end of the day, I thought, this isn't happening. But actually it's finding a time that's right for you before other things get in the way. and I think not being too hard on ourselves in terms of how often we are doing these things. You know, take sales and business development, for example. You know, a topic that's close to our hearts. It's about doing things in a way that's right for you. Setting some clear goals, not too over ambitious, but just starting.
Lisa Boyd: Yeah.
Helen Wada: action drives motivation. You talked about action drives that confidence, but action does drive the motivation once you've done it. Well, I can do this.
Lisa Boyd: Yeah, absolutely. And also it's about how you're showing up as you know, from your world and your book, and it's
you can set an intention for the day, at the beginning of the day about how you want to show up. If you set that intention, it's much [00:40:00] more likely to stay with you. So if I decide right today I'm gonna be really energetic, or today I'm gonna be, you know, a calm presence, or today, I'm gonna get really curious and just setting that intention for the day.
Again, we know through research, psychology research will help you to remain in that space longer than if you'd never even thought about it.
Helen Wada: I love that and not just because it's fully aligned with the human framework and the how you show up at the top.
Lisa Boyd: It just pinched me then.
Helen Wada: It, what emerges, right? This is the thing, you know, live and breathe what we talk about on this podcast because it's about let the conversation emerge and see what arises.
And I think there's some power in that. What insight can we create purely through conversation?
Lisa Boyd: Yeah.
Helen Wada: That that's one for another podcast. We haven't got time to cover that, but
Lisa Boyd: Okay.
Helen Wada: certainly one for the day. What about a question then? So I've just posed a question there, but what about your question for the listeners?
Lisa Boyd: I think, have you ever thought [00:41:00] about your values and what really matters to you? Because not everybody has, they haven't taken the time to do that. I. I think once you really understand what matters most to you, it drives your behavior and therefore that's going to help you to work out how you can be more sustainable in the work that you are doing.
Helen Wada: And the decisions that you make as well,
Lisa Boyd: Yeah. Yeah.
Helen Wada: and decisions that you make amazing, wonderful. Lots and lots to think about. I echo your point. I work with a lot of clients and I think, well, who are you? are you and what do you do? And
We don't take enough time to step back and think about it. And it changes as well through our careers.
Lisa Boyd: Absolutely.
Yes.
Helen Wada: start in one place. Would I have ever said when I university at the age of 21 that I'd be doing this now? Never in a million years.
Lisa Boyd: Yeah.
Helen Wada: And unless we take time to pause and [00:42:00] reflect. Need to let the opportunities emerge and take them.
Lisa Boyd: Yeah our values change as we mature as well, you know? So it's worth revisiting even if you have already thought about your values.
Helen Wada: yeah.
Lisa Boyd: Yeah.
Helen Wada: Lovely. It's been wonderful to have you on the show. I'm absolutely delighted that we finally found a time to align. Great to have you, and I'm looking forward to what's in store for the future, Lisa. So thank you for joining us and see you very soon.
Lisa Boyd: Thank you very much. Been wonderful to chat.
Helen Wada: Take care.
Lisa Boyd: Bye.