Ep37: How to Bring Your Whole Self to Work and Thrive in Your Career with Amy Wolf
Unlock the secrets to authentic career growth and transformative hiring in today’s fast-changing job market with this inspiring episode! Join Human Wise host Helen Wada in a candid, in-person conversation with Amy Wolfe, founder of The Wolfe Partnership and executive search expert, as they dive into what it really means to be "human at work." Discover why authenticity, trust, and self-knowledge matter more than ever for both job-seekers and employers—and how you can harness your unique strengths for lasting success.
You’ll learn why career ownership is essential (especially in uncertain times), how to craft your own compelling personal story, and the pitfalls of transactional recruitment. Amy shares actionable tips for candidates who feel stuck—whether you’re sending countless CVs into the void, feeling overlooked by age or circumstance, or striving to stand out beyond buzzwords and job titles. For businesses, she reveals how real connection, purpose, and transparent processes can transform your hiring—and why investing in people is key to thriving.
If you’re looking for practical career advice, want to hire exceptional talent, or simply crave a human-first approach to work, this episode will motivate you to embrace your individuality and build meaningful professional relationships. Don’t miss this must-listen guide to bringing humanity back to work!
Topics Discussed:
Human side of recruitment
Building trust through authenticity
Navigating career transitions successfully
Impact of technology on hiring
Importance of professional networking
Timestamps:
00:00 Rethinking Recruitment: A Consultative Approach
03:37 "Career Growth and Authenticity"
08:12 "Candid Chats Reveal True Character"
11:25 Embracing Authenticity Over Appearance
15:11 AI vs. Human in Hiring
18:31 Strategic Hiring and Candidate Experience
19:57 Trust in Critical Hiring Partnerships
25:05 "Owning Your Story at Work"
30:03 "Work Defines Identity, Purpose"
33:45 Discovering Career Direction and Passion
35:32 Unlocking Hidden Potential
37:57 "Be Yourself for Success"
42:29 Defining Purpose in Client Meetings
About Amy Woolf
Follow @awoolf on LinkedIn
Learn more about The Woolf Partnership
Today’s business challenges present a new wave of leadership and talent priorities. A seasoned executive search consultant, Amy has a wealth of experience in recruitment, communications and business development and prides herself on taking an extremely high touch approach with her clients and candidates alike. Starting her career in the world of boutique search, Amy specialised in professional services, technology and financial services recruitment across Europe and Asia.
Prior to launching The Woolf Partnership, Amy spent many years working within the professional services world, at KPMG. During her tenure she provided a bespoke direct search service to the partner group, worked alongside the UK Board to launch a firm wide social collaboration network and most recently was responsible for the design and content of the highly successful C-Suite Leadership Programme.
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Ep37: How to Bring Your Whole Self to Work and Thrive in Your Career with Amy Woolf
[00:00:00]
Introduction and Welcome
Helen Wada: Hello and welcome to another episode of Human Wise, and I'm delighted to have you here with me, Amy, actually in person. This is a first. I've always done these recordings online, but actually we thought why not get together? As two human being and having conversation in the same room. So it's wonderful to have you, Amy Woolf from the Woolf Partnership leading in setting up your own recruitment business, but really focused on the human side of careers and the human side of work.
And that's what we are [00:01:00] really here to have a conversation on today about is what does it mean as you manage your careers, and what does it also mean for businesses looking to bring authentic individuals into the workplace where, you know, recruitment to a certain extent has become transactional.
But what does it really mean to dig under the skin of that and really get the people that fit you and your organization? So actually delighted to be with you here today. Tell us a little bit more about you. Who is Amy?
Amy Woolf: Who is Amy? Well, I am really excited to be here and seeing you in person. I think it's quite fitting that, uh, a human wise podcast should be in human in actual form.
But also it's just a pleasure to have proper conversation face-to-face. Right. I I own The Woolf Partnership. It's an executive search firm focused on technology transformation and change. I also happen to be a married mother of three, and I have a dog. Just a small thing to
Helen Wada: go into,
Amy Woolf: just a small thing on the side.
I, it's important me to have that kind of mixture and balance in our [00:02:00] lives with lots of different things, you know? Yes. I absolutely adore being a mom and absolutely adore being a dog mom sometimes. And I'm very happily married, but also having a career was always really important to me. Yeah. And being trustee at social care charity, just to add things into the mix.
Yeah. Lots of things going on, which I think creates a rich tapestry and diversity of what I do. I set up The Woolf Partnership after working alongside you at KPMG for a number of years. I think the reason and the drive behind setting up an executive search firm was, I think threefold. Yeah. First and Foremostly.
I had grown up in exec search before moving into consulting and it's what I knew. It kind of, you know, I started my career and it felt familiar to me. I think I had always flirted with the idea of returning back to it when I knew more about who I was and what my career would be. I. Over the years in consulting, I had been on the receiving end of some very poor conversations from [00:03:00] recruiters, people who hadn't bothered to do any research about who I was or what I brought to the table, who were trying to sell me opportunities that had absolutely nothing to do with who I was, but also who didn't really care to find out who I was.
It was a numbers game. Yeah. Coupled that with a fact. Whilst we were at KPMG working on what does. Transformational leadership look like? I thought there has to be a way to combine, to your point, the human side of recruitment. Yes. But really a thorough and informed process into what is such a big part of our lives, our careers.
And if I could marry those bits together and create kind of a consultative approach, you know, to recruitment, surely there has to be a place for in the market.
Helen Wada: Amazing and what a great story that, that you also took that leap out of a comfort zone. And I think we'll talk about managing our careers as we go through this conversation.
'cause I [00:04:00] think one of the things certainly that I found in that fact Rich, like you rich tapestry of careers through different firms and different organizations, to the extent I think that's accelerating these days and we need to take ownership for it. And things do shift and change. Actually the one core thing that is, is who we are is who we are as human beings.
Authenticity in Recruitment
Helen Wada: And so kicking off as I kick off all of these conversations is what, given your field of work, given the recruitment of transformation, what does being human at work mean to you for that authenticity and connectivity when you are either looking for roles or when you are trying to
Amy Woolf: recruit infra roles? I think it's a really important question, and so many times I had conversations with people and I could feel the holding back.
They're trying to put a version of themselves out, which doesn't feel authentic, and to me that's a massive red flag because [00:05:00] authenticity builds trust, and trust is the foundation of every successful relationship and. Recruitment is an enabler. Of course it is. I'm in the business of people matching, and I can't match a person to the perfect job or the job to the perfect person if I don't know who you are, right?
So, so that human element for me is, I think there's a bit of a trifecta here, right? So for me, and I say this to my team, is bring your whole self to work. If you've had a bad day, of course it's hard to always put on a bright smile, share it with us, explain to me what's going on so I can understand and I can empathize.
I think more than that, it's about connections we make with our candidates and our clients. We are people. Yeah. In a world before technology has completely taken over everything. It's people first and that's basically,
Helen Wada: I think, you know, unless they're gonna shoot us as a whole race and there's some people in this world that are trying to do a very good job.
If that answers, we might go there. Yeah. But. We are [00:06:00] always going to be here. And I think no matter what technology advancements, what ai, you know, it's the word on the street or 2025, what are you doing with ai? What are you doing with technology? But fundamentally, we are human beings and we have to connect with each other.
Yeah. And find what's important to us before we can sell ourselves in or influence others.
Amy Woolf: People buy from people and people trust people. Right. And there's a reason that, the kind of, the industry I'm in at the moment is a little bit broken because that trust is breaking down. So every single person in my business needs to know that when they are connecting with clients, candidates, anyone in laboratory you need to seek the common ground of familiarity.
But you do that through who you are. You know, there's no way that you can always just be ah.
Helen Wada: Fake because you wanna my mad Yeah. We were talking about it before coming on that both approaching our big birthdays and kind of looking at the, uh, the little lines that might or may or may not be appearing but there's [00:07:00] something that's honest in that says actually that what do we do?
Because you want, you see it all the time that we're almost trying to cut on a face of somebody. We are not to be a person that we think will get in the door.
Amy Woolf: I don't think we, I think you're right, some people do, but actually as I get older, with each and every lovely little line that appears on my face, I think to myself, actually, I'm more comfortable in my own skin now than I ever was.
And I remember as a young headhunter trying desperately to connect with clients and candidates by, you know, sort of seeking out what they might like and what they might do. Whereas now I'm just unapologetically me, you know? And I picked up the phone to someone last week and they asked me how I was and I was like, well actually I'm quite grumpy.
I've been in a fight with Microsoft this week because, you know, and I launched into my outburst about Outlook and it was a starting point. Yeah. Because what do they know? Straight away I'm [00:08:00] human. Yeah. I'm a real person. I have real emotions.
Helen Wada: An outlook can be really challenging or teams. I was having conversation before, see Ashley, I know what Microsoft's doing this before I was having conversation with somebody.
Yes. Yesterday. And he laptop.
Amy Woolf: Exactly right. And those conversations break down barriers. They make us feel connections with the people. But also, and I say this to everyone when I'm interviewing someone, you get much more of a feel from someone when you are having a candid conversation, a kind of. A colloquial chat rather than tell me about a tiny cured cancer, because someone can always reel off something they've done really well.
When you're having an informal conversation, you find out who they are. Can they have banter? Can they have a, you know, a bit of a laugh with you. This tells you about who they are, what kind of cultural fit they're gonna have. You don't get that from being laser focused and rigid in everything you do. And I think, Helen, you know, we've spoken about this before.[00:09:00]
Purpose is so important to any business, and I'm 100% sure that you can uncover your purpose. A business as an individual, whatever it might be, then you'll know where you wanna go. I know for a fact that there are far better recruiters at winning business than I am. There are far better people that will be more tenacious on the phones and hitting the bones every day.
Yeah. Numbers, yeah. But I think you're going to be hard pressed to find a search firm that is more focused on really understanding their client base, really knowing their candidates, and it's not. An accident that I've been to candidate's weddings or you know, I've been a birthday party.
No, and
Helen Wada: your diary is so busy. Right.
Amy Woolf: But that's because, you know, and people will laugh about how overly involved I am. Yeah. I got into headhunting 'cause I'm nosy and I'll never stop being nosy. It's that curiosity. Yeah. That's next way. Putting it, I mean,
Helen Wada: I mean we talk about a lot in Hitchin, but it's that [00:10:00] curiosity of being interested in people.
Be interesting. Yeah. Chi it. So yeah, we talk about, we got here through these years of experience, un apology, un I can't even say it unapologetically you. There we go. I try.
Advice for Younger Self and Career Reflections
Helen Wada: But advice to your younger self. Because I think that is, you know, there is something that comes with wisdom and experience and trying stuff and finding it out and we also change over time as human beings.
We also change what's important to us, maybe from our purpose or passions, the as we grow. Yeah. But actually, if you were to look back at your younger self and say, I wish I'd known men. What I know now,
Amy Woolf: it's a really interesting question and part of me wants to say nothing. I wouldn't tell my younger self anything because if you don't make mistakes and if you don't go through life, then you can never learn.
Yeah. [00:11:00] However, if I had just one piece of advice for my younger self, whatever age it is to embrace your individuality and not to sweat small stuff, and I think those two message are really important. The first. I think as young women of a certain demographic and time, yeah, we perhaps were pigeonholed into certain areas and I became very consumed by looking apart or being more mature than I was, being more together than I might have been.
Whereas now with those spine lines in a bit more wisdom, I'm quite okay being not so together and a bit more over the shop.
Helen Wada: Yeah.
Amy Woolf: Because I'm probably more comfortable in my own skin, but also 'cause I know a bit more what I'm doing. Yeah. I wish back then I would've been a bit more comfortable with the uncertainty and the ambiguity and just safe in the knowledge that I knew what I was doing and I didn't have to look a certain way or be a certain way.
And just because the people in charge, largely [00:12:00] men knew, wanted me to behave a certain way. Yeah, there was room to grow and I wish I would've known that then. I don't think you can tell someone that because I, again, we are from a certain demographic when there was certain rigid rigidity around what we were doing.
And I think the other thing is about not sweating the small stuff, which again comes with experience, right?
Helen Wada: Yeah.
Amy Woolf: But when you are younger, things get blown out. Proportion things can feel so all encompassing.
Now looking back you can see that everything has its rightful place. Yeah. And everything is a learning opportunity and everything will come out in a certain way. Some things will be bad and some things will be better. Yeah. That you, there's very little you control of that. But other than that, I do think we need to experience it.
And I think that going back to what you were saying about kind of learning as you grow. It's all about your style. Even 20 years ago when I was out, I knew then that I wasn't the same as everyone else in my cohort of recruiters because I was [00:13:00] too interested in finding out all the quirks and idiosyncra of everyone I was talking to.
I was so dead set and building rapport with people that I could, you know, talk behind the leg off a donkey, and I still can. Yeah. But what that has translated in now is, you know, as the Woolf partnership has grown. I've been very clear that for us it's about finding transformational leaders for our clients.
And what does transformational leadership mean? It's authenticity. It's transparency. It's about being positively disruptive. Yeah. And those three qualities that, again, you asked me how we bring the human to work. Yeah. That's it. For me, it's that being authentic. It's about being transparent with my team, with my clients, with my candidates, with my friends.
Yeah. And expecting or seeking out. Those people for my clients and matching them up with businesses that are ready to embrace transformational leadership.
Helen Wada: And it comes right to it is that, it's that trust and transparency piece, isn't it? It's how do we really connect [00:14:00] at a human level? 'cause I think, you know, we all have a cv, right?
We all, you could ask people what is your cv? You would be surprised. Well, people do not have cvs. And actually I'm thinking back to the last time.
However, like I'm generalizing, but actually there's something about, you know, the traditional CV Yeah. Is about what you have done. Right. Your traditional cv, you know, depending on where you are at in your career, it talks about your education, your first role, your second role, what you've done, what you've achieved.
Yeah. Yeah. Numbers back. This figure's titles, right? Yeah. And there's something when we, when I'm coaching actually particularly running our boots. Programs as we talk about, what does your human see? How interesting. So who are you, who is the person behind those facts and those figures and the numbers?
Amy Woolf: Well, the danger with that having is I'm not sure that however many, uh, bots you have on LinkedIn or on a platform [00:15:00] to help businesses attract candidates or to look through cvs, I'm not sure that those. Platforms are able to detect the human in that. Right. And that's where I think, and I hope we come into it, because when we take a lot of time with our candidates and asking them questions about their motivations, their drivers, what's important to them, what's less important to them, you build up a profile of someone.
And that, again, goes back to the human part of them. Either bits are not on TVs. Because actually if you are training a platform or AI to think about kind of keywords or key skills, you're missing out a lot of who they are. We have spoken a lot about how that impacts diversity and inclusion, but we've also probably not even begin to touch upon the kind of the I guess the qualitative
Helen Wada: Yeah.
Amy Woolf: Element of that. Right. What is not on paper, and you are right, a CB is the facts and figures. Your LinkedIn profile is your digital business card.
Helen Wada: Yeah.
Amy Woolf: You as a person, as someone completely separate, [00:16:00] and you bring all of those things to life.
Challenges in the Recruitment Industry
Amy Woolf: And I think that actually, and we were talking about this beforehand, I think this is why, or part of the reason why there's been such a breakdown in trust and why I think the recruitment market and very bright in the last 30 years because there's been this breakdown of trust between candidates, client, recruiter, and everything's in a bit of a disarray.
So you can kind of get the human back into it. And people can remember actually the human sides are human traits.
Helen Wada: Yeah.
Amy Woolf: It will just continue to be too transactional and that trust will continue to erode.
Helen Wada: And I think you are, I think you're right. And you talk about, you know, that's sort of a micro climate in terms of the human market, but you take that out a bit.
You take the macro uncertainty that we've got within the job market as it is at the moment. And so what you've got is you've got uncertainty on top of uncertainty, and you've got people looking for roles. [00:17:00] You've got businesses that can't get the right people into the roles that they've got vacant.
And so you've just this mishmash. Yeah. How do we break this then how do we recognizing that we are human beings? The authenticity, the fact that you've got, you know, recruiters. A lot of the time looking at the facts and the data and the LinkedIn profiles and so forth, what is it that we need to do on both sides?
If I'm in an organization like now and like I need to find these right people for my business, what do I need to be thinking about?
Amy Woolf: It's a really difficult question because I don't think the answer is user recruiter for everything. I really don't. I think that there's got to be the right. Solution for the right problem.
So I think the first and foremost thing is you are a hiring manager and you have a problem, and the solution is finding the talent. You have to be able to articulate what the problem is really clearly. So less about. [00:18:00] We haven't got the sales in that we need, and more about the fact that, okay, our sales team is comprised of X amount skills.
My business plan is in the next three years I want to do X, Y, and Z. What's missing from that? Look at it in more of a kind of a strategic view rather than a short term view. When you are then generating job descriptions or thinking about your hiring approach, think about how you're going to be reaching out to these candidates.
What makes you attractive, but also. How many candidates can you personally actually see? What strain is it going to put on your recruitment team, on your hiring managers to actually look through thousands of cvs? Because the worst thing you can do for your brand is give a bad candidate experience. Yeah.
So let's think about what that process is. Okay. Now, in some cases, that may mean advertising on LinkedIn, putting it on your website, seeing what you can do, word of mouth. Yep. You know, friends and family network's. So important and I think it's worthwhile mentioning that as a candidate. You need to be considering, is this job actually for me?
Yeah. [00:19:00] Can I actually do it? Do I actually want it? Because I can tell you right now. In any given situation, there will be a third of people that will apply to a job that is just not um, and I speak from experience. Yeah. And I have advertised jobs for our business online for research associates. And I've put in the description, they'll be researching jokes, they'll be looking at LinkedIn, and I get PhD candidates looking for job research labs.
So people do, it's a focus on her. I think partnering with businesses that you trust is really important and communication is key. I think those are my two things, right? So if there is a critical role that you need to hire, speak to people like me, yeah. Get an understanding of whether or not we can do this for you.
If you think that we meet eye to eye, if you think we get your business, if the right, if you process resonates with you, uh, place some trust in the back that we know what we're doing to lead you to run your business because otherwise. Time that you are taking to search for someone is time that you are out in the business time.
The role isn't being [00:20:00] filled, time, that there's money left on the table because you're not doing it and wasted money on yourself. Because actually it's the partnerships and it's the knowledge and it's the relationships that really matter and can kind of help you to unlock that power. And from a cancer perspective, trust is also really important.
You have to be open and transparent about what you're looking for.
Helen Wada: Yeah.
Amy Woolf: There's a lot of debate about whether or not you should be telling people what you want for salary wise or whether or not you should be sharing other opportunities you're looking for. I personally feel if someone is being open from all sides.
It just engenders so much more trust. If we are asking our clients to be open and transparent about what they're offering, salary, opportunity, career path, and opening up their business for you to meet people, an interview process that is really transparent and thorough, you know, allowing you to meet a raft of different people.
Yeah. Then in turn, I wanna make sure that feedback goes back to that candidate really quickly, and it's thorough and it's coherent [00:21:00] and comprehensive. I would love that. Candidates also were open and transparent about what they feel and how they're doing. Because actually what you end up with is if someone is cagey about their responses at any given way in that supply chain, everything breaks out.
So it comes it's back
Helen Wada: to that trust, isn't it? It's back out. It is back to who you are. And the job market's hard at though right now. So that be, people sat there going, but I'm trying everything right. I want to be in, in a role. I wanna be the. What's your advice to them in today's market, given that, you know, I, I know a number of people that are looking for roles at the moment.
Think about it. They're like, well, you know, it goes into a black hole. Why? I'll send my CV and I hear nothing back. Or, you know, what I hear a lot of at the moment, whether it's right things say or not. But, you know, quite frankly, I'm the wrong side of 45 and I'm a white man and they're looking for women in business.
So where do I go from here? .
Amy Woolf: So firstly, I think it's tough and I have to acknowledge that I think everyone is tough [00:22:00] and the businesses that want to recruit, it's tough. They can't find the candidates, which is bizarre because there are candidates in the market that, yeah, and the candidates on the market, they're looking, they can't buy the businesses.
So I think First and Foremostly, we've spoken about this black hole beforehand. It is hard to apply on any kind of platform and just pop your CV out there and hope it goes into ether up.
Taking Control of Your Career
Amy Woolf: Yeah, I believe having a bit of control over your career is really handy. We spend a vast amount of time at work too much, sometimes fresh, hard, and yet for some reason when it comes to recruitment, we hope someone's going to wave magic wand and give us the right role here.
Designing what you are looking for is hard. We ask candidates we're working for to really think about what it is you want for a role. What do you need to see in a business to make sure it's right for you? What do you need to see in a role to make right for you? And then I've asked candidates to go one step further and say, where do you wanna work and why you, how do you articulate [00:23:00] that if you haven are applying for a job at company A?
Right. If you really want it and really, really, really want it, do good homework. Find out who the hiring manager is, you know, send them a message or find out who you know.
The Importance of Networking
Amy Woolf: And we've spoken about network beforehand. Your friends and family are my biggest competitors because they know you. They love you usually.
Yeah. And they want to see sing from the rooftops, how good you are. So I really do believe that if you invest in your network and you socialize and you know, not just go hang out and have a glass of wine with someone, or they do that because it's fun, but actually think about, you know, industry events to go to and where, and meet people where you can learn more, where you can acquire more knowledge and more experience.
You'll find that actually you're more well collected than you realize. And it's the same with anything, right? If you are trying to win some business. You are far more likely to win that business. If you know someone at Company eight, you are just by calling it Company eight cold calling. Yeah. Right. So utilize your network.
It's the
Helen Wada: warm leads it's when all leads rather than [00:24:00] cold calls. Right. And when going, actually, if we wanna ask for ourselves, how many of those cold calls do really lead into something e Yeah. Maybe there's one or two, like one in a blue moon. Like, but actually, and you were in the business.
So it's about going back to your people, but people, how do they trust you? What do they know about you? What's that referral? And you need to be able to tell, and I was actually working with a client this morning on what's your story? Always, but I think there's something about, you know, combat being Q at work.
What is your story? What is your story in terms of who you are, the value that you bring. Taking time to really unpick that. 'cause I think sometimes we get ourselves onto a hamster wheel and just do. Rather than taking a step back. Yeah. And thinking about who we really are and what's important to us.
And I think, you know, that applies [00:25:00] throughout our career and will change but particularly. If you are thinking that where you are at for whatever reason, is no longer where you want to be, and you think about an opportunity, you know, whether that's for growth, promotion or location change, we have to be able to articulate our story.
Yeah. To influence others so that they buy into it. And so it does become that sort of taking ownership of who we are, being human. Technology can do certain stuff, but actually. Can it knit the dots together? Can you get that emotional connection?
Amy Woolf: Not yet, because technology's only as good as the people who've made it.
Okay. We aren't that advanced yet, but I think you are right. You know, it's the personality. If I could bottle this up and share it with the world, which essentially is what we're doing now, is I would tell people to, in the same way that I say, everyone needs to know that business purpose.
Embracing Your Unique Value
Amy Woolf: You need to know your purpose as an individual. You need to know what your US peers, you need to [00:26:00] know what makes you different.
Helen Wada: Yeah.
Amy Woolf: And when you can figure that out, and I, it's a hard question to answer. Absolutely know I've met many coaches. What makes you different? I've met many recruits. What makes me different?
If you know what that differentiating factor is, and if you know what you bring to the table, then it can be hugely. Impactful to turn around a business and say, Hey, by the way, I have looked at your product, and by the way, this needs to be better. Yeah. Because, I mean, perhaps maybe not in an arrogant way, but people need to hear that.
Yeah. You know, and I think it's really important that you don't undervalue what the experience you bring. I think the other thing is, and I mean I've said it before and I'll say it again. We are in a people business. You and I have both businesses, right. People are at the heartbeat of every organization.
It doesn't matter how good your product is, how good your service is, it's the people that run that. And if you aren't investing in that talent, then [00:27:00] you're missing a trick. And you should be investing at them at every single step of the way. When you attract them, when you attain them, and when they leave.
Because every single good leader knows. When a really talented person walks out that door, the only answer is, thank you so much for your hard work. Come back when you're ready. You know, every single interaction matters. So in answer to the first question, and I hate it's the same one, but weaves the human in your improvement.
Be yourself. Don't be afraid to be who you are. But I think we need to stop looking at our careers as something that's waiting to happen to us and start taking a bit more ownership with them and weaving our personality into them. A lot of the time I speak to candidates to say, well, I wish I'd never left company.
Yeah. Because I was really happy there. And I said, but actually, that's great, but if you're really happy there, why did you leave? Well, you know, they weren't taking me seriously, or I'd been there [00:28:00] since I was X Mount. Well, that's your answer. There's your answer.
Career Evolution and Self-Discovery
Amy Woolf: Every time we make a move, you learn something new, you change, you evolve.
And I think it's really amazing to be with people throughout their journeys and see how they evolve and see how they change and transform. And a case in point is if you look at us when we first started working together, yes. Is who we are now. We are different people, but our careers have evolved and moved.
Yeah. Other and that's amazing. And that curiosity is what drives me. And I hate what drives other people too, to find out more about who they're working with.
Helen Wada: And it comes back to who they're, who they are as people and what they bring, what they enjoy doing, what gets them out of bed. And yeah, and I think the other piece, and this, you know, kind of relates to business development.
So sales and what I talk about the other side of my coach, you know, how do you grow your business? What are the human skills that you need in business available, which, you know, I'm super passionate about. Actually those skills are the same [00:29:00] as the skills you need to manage and develop a career.
The Long Game in Career Development
Helen Wada: Because actually it's about a long game.
It's about longer than we'd like, and I think it's gonna continue like, but actually in all seriousness, actually no I'm coming not towards the end of my career, but in my, it started the next chapter. Actually, the more people I talk to that are maybe some of the less is that they don't wanna be stopped working because actually work is part of who they are and it's part of our personality.
Yeah. And yes, you might want to travel and you might want to all that, but actually it's part of our purpose's, part of our identity. And as we do with business development networking, our careers need to be seen as. It's a marathon, not a sprint. And I think that's, you know, I asked you the question about what would be your advice to your younger self.
Aligning Purpose with Career Goals
Helen Wada: And I loved your answer by the way. 'cause I think actually there is something about let it evolve, learn it. [00:30:00] It's not perfect. You try, you learn, you, you do that differently. But actually one of the things that I share with people that I work with that are maybe at the earliest stages of their career is.
This was, came for the very first coach that I ever had when I was on maternity leave. Zach, he's now 50. Goodness. How did that happen? And I was always, you know, striving for that next goal, that next promotion you come out of university. It was like clear. And this, that promotion. Promotion. I went next, the next and she kind of drew me this timeline and I was, I think 32 at the time, maybe 33.
She kind of drew it to sort of 65 70 and you're like, holy mo.
Amy Woolf: Yeah. I mean that way seems too expansive that
Helen Wada: at that time, you know, now I've moved quite a few years kind of beyond that, but actually there is something to say when you are thinking about who you are, the holes that you want, try things out.
Yeah. Do things that are different because actually when you know goodness, [00:31:00] great means that we're taking GCSC next year. And there we'll be looking at narrowing down. Particularly in the uk, the education system narrows us down very early and actually the jobs in the market today, you overlay technology you overlay that will change what jobs are there in the future.
And so it's kind of going the flow, it's keeping that night bike up, it's keeping the conversations going, following what you enjoy. I mean, I remember being, I did a role for a year or two, director of fp and eight planning analysis. I hated it because actually it just wasn't me. No,
Amy Woolf: it's not you.
Helen Wada: You can say that, but you know it.
It was great experience there for a variety of things, but actually wonderful time. Came up. I was like that's me. That's, you know, and so you transition. So I think there's something that says, stick with who you are and what you, what really
Amy Woolf: gives you
Helen Wada: joy. What
Amy Woolf: energizes you? [00:32:00] I think you've hit on a really good point though.
I think that at some point in your career, you realize that you're gonna focus on your strengths and neutralize your weaknesses.
Helen Wada: Yeah.
Amy Woolf: But actually really what we're doing throughout our lives. It's focusing on strength. 'cause you do what you enjoy because you enjoy what you're good at. Yeah. You know, apart from perhaps maybe, I don't know, I quite like Ooping and I'm not gonna be a champion, you know, tech, but, you know, is that on your bucket list for the no, it's definitely not.
And then that's definitely not, but you know, I really I really do believe that we tend to excel in the things that we are enjoying and we enjoy the things we're excelling in. At some point or another, you realize I'm never gonna be a figure skater, so I'll do it recreationally, but I'm not gonna keep going to skating lessons.
Because broken bones and cool seats, right. And I think that's really kind of to your point, is you know who you are at your core and FK and a might have been a good opportunity for you for a year because it showed you all the things you don't wanna do, but [00:33:00] actually to focus on who you are and where you go in your career.
And if I look at kind of, if we take you as an example. The first time we met, you were starting to explore a client facing work, right? And you haven't really been in a business development, kind of have seen forehand. It's not who you are. Whereas now when I look at you and that is your USP, because what you unlocked at that time in your life was, oh my goodness, I like working with people.
Wow. I'm really good at it. I'm gonna keep doing this. Yeah. And actually, I enjoy talking to people about their problems and figuring out what the solution is. Yeah. I was talking to a client a couple of weeks ago and they turned around to me and said, I've never really met a recruiter like you before.
And I said, what do you mean? He said, well, you seem to be more interested in kind of what the business problems and challenges are rather than who I'm going to hire. And I said, well, that's because if only if I know your business challenges and problems, then we can come up together with a coherent plan for what you actually need.
Yeah. [00:34:00] And I suppose that's the consultant in me that doesn't want to just. Say yes. It's the curiosity. It's that humanity piece. It's, but I think it's just by knowing who you are and like going back to kind of saying to you, there will be other recruiters who would've won that business straight away.
'cause they would've said, ah, you need insert person, let me yeah. Find it for you. Whereas I'm sitting there business saying but if the business is gonna go in this way, don't you think you might need to do that? And can you do this? And you know, sort of analyzing. So much more of the business. That's what gets me outta bed in the morning, and therefore that's where this business will always go.
Yeah. Because it's who I am at my call. And to your point, you can't change, you know, you can, you can't resist that. You know, you can, if you've ever seen it kind of, a deeply unhappy accountant who is chomping at the bit to no longer look at numbers as we both had, and you'll know for a fact that you just can't fight.
Personality weight has come out, and [00:35:00] once you embrace it and you see someone and you unlock their value, it can be transformative. What I wanna do, what I love doing is finding people who are great, who could be exceptional in a different setting, and finding a leader who has the power to have an incredible team, who just needs to find that incredible talent and marrying them together.
Because if you do that and all the stars are aligned, goodness is amazing. Yeah. But you can't do that without trust. No. Every single person beforehand needs to trust each other, you know, to really find the value in each other. And the authenticity has to come out. Otherwise, you're fighting, losing battle.
Yeah.
Helen Wada: And that's where that humanity, the humility comes in terms of. What's important to you? To me, where do I want to go? And not being afraid to reach out. I think that, you know, coming back to the ownership is on you as an individual to a large extent, the [00:36:00] world is not going to, it's not gonna find you on a plate.
Wouldn't it be nice? And so that where the resilience, right, the business development, you know, you have to keep on. What are my mantras when I set up a human advantage or so where'd you go? Where do you start? One conversation at a time. Always. And for me, that is something that applies in one conversation at a time.
The more people you tell about the who you are, the more people you tell about your story, the more you refine your story and it
Amy Woolf: evolves. The first I heard about this, we were sitting in a coffee shop somewhere, I think in the West End. And you were talking to me about the human advantage and what it was then.
What it is now is it's extraordinary, the journey you've been on the same as mine. It's just, you know, your story evolves as you evolve and how you hope it, but you know, the truth of the matter is as ever there was a human advantage is in a people business. Yeah. You know, I'm not selling cars, we are not dealing with, you know, shampoo or for shelf.
[00:37:00] This is people, and people are challenging and people are difficult, and people are wonderful and they are crazy, and if you ignore the human side of who you are, you're going to cipher your personality and you're not gonna be successful. I once had a candidate who I don't think she'll mind me saying this because, well, it's too many knowing us.
Yeah. She said to me, what do you think I should do to prep for the interview? And I said, just be yourself. I said, you know what? You just need to be who you are because if you aren't who you are in that meeting. You will not be successful. And she said, how myself should I be? And I said, be yourself.
And she came out of the meeting and she said to me, I went full crazy on them. And I said, how does it go? She says, it's wonderful. She'd been in that business for five years. She every day is happy. I mean, not every day. So 0.1 more. And she has been able to do what literally no one else was able to do in that role because she brought ourselves into it.
And I thought that is just, it's the most important thing, you know, [00:38:00] you've just gotta know who you are. And I know I will never be a super polished person who operates like a robot and only within the lines. I will always be all over the lines with lots of color and lots of expression, and, you know, a huge amount of passion.
It's not an accident that growing up all I heard was it's that redhead screaming passion coming out. It's who I am. Yeah. You know, you can fight against it as much as you are, but at my core as personality, and without that, this business would just be a another separate recruitment company. And it's not.
Helen Wada: And that is, you know, I'm looking at the time and thinking, goodness gracious me. But I think. You know, we could talk for ages, but actually that's a really good place agreed to, to leave it. Leave us on. What would be the one, I think you've just said it there, what would be your one tip, given our conversation to listeners out there that I may be looking for that role, that are thinking, you know, I know I'm good at what I [00:39:00] do, but how do I get there?
What would be your one piece of advice?
Amy Woolf: I think knowing you're good at what you do and getting, there are two very different things and I think the missing piece of the pub puzzle is identifying your USP. I think you have a good elevated pitch, a really good over pitch. Why at you, what makes you different?
And you say, well, I'm really good at well being to people, and that's rubbish.
Helen Wada: Yeah.
Amy Woolf: I want to know what you do that no one else does, and why a business needs, if you can say that and articulate it well, you're onto a good thing.
Helen Wada: And taking time. That takes time to refine. Yeah. Say it out and say it out loud.
'cause actually we do have to say it out loud. I have a phrase on shared our previous podcast, but yeah, say it, believe it, become it. And that was something that when I was setting up the human advantage, you know, this is vastly different from where I was. Yeah. It's not just a shift in what I was doing it's something completely new.[00:40:00]
But I like to think I know, and I believe it. This is, but actually I had to say it, to believe it, to earn it. And there's something about saying it out loud to your friends who bore them to your family. And tweak it, right? Yeah. Tweak it. And then a good coach loves a good question. So for people listening, what question would you offer them to think about?
As they reflect on the conversation today, what sort of, what would you get people to think about as they're maybe looking for a new role or it could be some, an offer to organizations that are here listening, thinking about vacancies they've got, what questions encourage 'em to reflect on.
Amy Woolf: I would ask people to reflect on their purpose, the purpose, the role.
Their purpose as an individual. You know, purpose as a whole is really important. So [00:41:00] if you are a job seeker looking for a role, I've asked you already to identify who you are and what you do, but what is the purpose of any discussion you are having with a company? It's very easy to get jaded going to interview after interview.
And I've always said to people, if I think they're gonna bleed all over the floor in an interview, you're not Reddit. You need to take a step back. You need to go for a walk. You need to rant and rave to me before you can see my client. Yeah. So what is the purpose of that meeting? What are you gonna get out of it and how are you gonna approach it?
And for a client looking for an individual or a prospective role they're hunting for, what is the purpose? This role, what is it? How does it align to your business needs? And how critical is it if the answer isn't business critical? If the answer isn't, we cannot grow without them or. If it's apathy, it's not worth it because all you're gonna end up doing is putting something through the process and not giving the best experience.
The career progression. Yeah, and the best experience they can have. So [00:42:00] I would really think about purpose, the purpose, the role, the purpose of the conversation, purpose of what you're doing. And I really believe that if you can figure out exactly what it is you're looking for and hoping for from each end, you will have a much more fruitful experience on both sides.
Thank you. Thank you.
Helen Wada: It's brilliant. I knew it would be. I knew it would be. Thank you for hosting in your one day offices and maybe we'll do face to face again on love again, any so into the studio. Thank you.