Ep17: Mastering the Art of Negotiation with Róisín Hennerty
In this episode of the Human Wise podcast, host Helen Wada delves into the art of negotiation with Róisín Hennerty, the former CEO of the global foods division at Ornua.
Róisín shares insights from her extensive career, now pivoting to a portfolio career as an investor, non-executive director, and advisor. They discuss the importance of curiosity early in one's career, the power of owning your narrative, and the necessity of resilience and adaptability. The conversation also touches on understanding others, effective stakeholder management, and the deeper skills required for successful negotiations.
Helen and Róisín explore the Human Advantage framework, emphasizing the importance of showing up authentically, and the need for effective listening in both personal and professional contexts. This episode offers valuable tips for anyone looking to enhance their career and commercial relationships.
Topics Discussed:
The Importance of Curiosity
Owning Your Narrative
Handling Setbacks and Building Resilience
Authenticity and First Impressions
Timestamps:
[03:54] The Importance of Curiosity
[06:16] Being Human at Work
[08:04] The Human Framework
[11:14] Owning Your Narrative
[15:03] Understanding Others
[16:49] Negotiation Skills and Stakeholder Management
[21:40] Career Journey Overview
[22:07] Mindset and Resilience
[24:45] Stepping Out of Comfort Zones
[25:52] Handling Setbacks and Building Resilience
[27:21] Authenticity and First Impressions
[28:31] Adapting in Business Conversations
[33:58] Effective Listening and Client Relationships
[35:11] Reflecting on Career Progress
[36:15] Conclusion and Final Thoughts
Read the episode blog here
About Róisín Hennerty:
Non-Executive Director | C-Suite Executive | Leader Global CPG Portfolio Business | Experienced Executive with a track record developing industry-leading strategy, differentiated customer value propositions & achieving exceptional results.
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Ep.17: Mastering the Art of Negotiation: with Róisín Hennerty Human Wise Podcast
[00:00:00]
Introduction to the Podcast
Helen Wada: Hello and welcome to another episode of human wise, the podcast that explores the commercial advantage of being human at work and being human at work. There is no one better to be by my side today.
Meet Róisín Hennity
Helen Wada: Róisín, Hennity, the former CEO of the global foods division at or newer based in the U S and Ireland.
She now has a portfolio career where she's an investor, non exec, and does advisory work with her clients. And so Róisín, your career is amazing, and I'm going to get the listeners to hear you a little bit about that in a moment, but you know, it's really wonderful to have you on the pod today and look forward to our conversation.
Roisin Hennerty: Thanks for having me, Helen. I'm, delighted to be here and delighted to get the invite. So thank you.
Helen Wada: Ah, my pleasure. So if, your friends and family were talking about Róisín, the human Róisín Hennity, what would
they say?
Roisin Hennerty: I'm terrified at that question, but [00:01:00] if I give them the pass and presume that they say the decent and nice things about me I, certainly hope people would describe me as, genuine, as authentic, very direct individual. I have a terrible poker face, so. If I'm not in love with you're saying, it can come up to the, surface very quickly.
I'm a lifelong lover of real food and that idea of gathering around the table and my career has kind of followed that path as well. And I think when I think about all of that. My family will attest, you know, knife and fork skills will get you a long way with me, you know, get in early, connect. If you use both your fork and your knife at the same time, that's going to get you all the way down the road in building a relationship me.
Helen Wada: Can you come and tell my teenage children, please,
Roisin Hennerty: Teenagers get up fast. It's when you're sitting around the table with the adults that these become even more important. If you want to win me over, just pick up that knife the same time as that fork.
Helen Wada: It's all about the food and the relationships, right? [00:02:00] And, you know, it comes back to being human, but your career history is really interesting and it's probably worth understanding a little bit
more.
Róisín's Early Career Journey
Helen Wada: you
started off in admin role,
Roisin Hennerty: Yeah, a lot of people always think, wow, you know you had great job. It must have started from somewhere. But, I had come out of college and I was thinking about what would I do? I always wanted to be in publishing. I did do that for a couple of years and discovered, while I loved books, I loved reading, I loved everything about them.
You know being in charge of crossing the T's and dotting the I's was, you know, earth shatteringly boring for me. And I really enjoy that kind of detail work, which was
Helen Wada: that poke,
Roisin Hennerty: very
Quickly. So, just, it was all very quite, it was very fortuitous for me, really, an admin job came up.
I spoke German. I'd done German in my degree and I'd spent some time living there, so I was fluent. And I started off in Ornua as an admin where I would use my German to support the German team and market and do some translation work. So it [00:03:00] went from there. I suddenly landed in this place where I saw the connectivity between the brand Kerrygold and the farmers who made it.
And then I also got to connect with all these customers all over the world in countries. I had rarely heard about learning a lot. So my curiosity was piqued. My love of food kind of surfaced very quickly and having that connection between, you know, food, the people who make it and the people who are going to eat it, it all just resonated strongly with
Helen Wada: Yeah.
Roisin Hennerty: there for nearly three decades.
Helen Wada: Wow. And it's really interesting you talk about that connection because I think often, you know, I'm talking corporate world now, but sometimes people struggle to
see the connection of what they're doing on a day to day basis with the wider good that the organization is doing and so forth. How
did you
see
that sense that with what you were doing?
The Importance of Curiosity
Roisin Hennerty: I think I was very fortunate because my career started, and I do think it's important to think [00:04:00] about where your career starts. Where you start is usually at a lower level. You're early on, you're youthful, you've loads to learn. And, you know, when you come into a sort of a role where you're exposed to everybody, the senior leadership, you know, the teams that are out doing the job in the field and even on the back end procurement and supply, you get to see a lot of an organization and you can ask lots of questions and you'll be exposed in minor ways.
And I think if you're curious and you're interested, the learning can be really accelerated quickly. You might not have figured out where you want to be in that mix, but if you're interested, I think that's. A way to learn a lot about an organization and maybe take on other roles that you might not have thought about, apply for things and expose yourself to different parts of an organisation. So I think early in our careers, that's really important.
Helen Wada: That curiosity
Roisin Hennerty: Yeah.
Helen Wada: do, curiosity is a big part of it. So when I was able to be listening to this for a while, I was a global client director at KPMG and
I was
in [00:05:00] sales. I never thought I would be in a sales role. And one of the, you know, people would say, why are you good at what you do?
And it's because I'm curious because I'm inquisitive. I want to know about my customers. I want to know what's
going on.
I And therefore, once you know what's going on, you might be able to help them. And I never saw it as a, you know, transaction. It was more of a curiosity that led to opportunity. And I think it's fascinating that you talk about that from really early days in your career, so it
becomes part of the skill
Roisin Hennerty: yeah.
Helen Wada: Of you and your role and at work,
Roisin Hennerty: Yeah. And I, think look later on in our careers when we have more responsibility and we were managing teams or we're supporting clients. Being able to bring the story of the business to life in a way that's meaningful for everybody and they see the relevance, whether it's an individual who's on a team, understanding that, you know, might not just be what they're doing in the moment.
There's a wider stakeholder group to [00:06:00] consider and the objectives of an organization are with the customer, of expanding that discussion so you can connect across their needs figure out how you can be relevant when you're having that engagement.
Helen Wada: and I think it's fascinating and we'll pick up on that in a moment. I
think
Being Human at Work
Helen Wada: one of the things with human wise is it's about being human at work. And so we've heard a bit more about you, your journey so far, but as you're sort of looking on from the top now, Róisín.
What does being human
at Merck mean
to you
with all your decades of experience and where you're now at looking forward?
Roisin Hennerty: Well, for me, it means bringing your whole self to work. Now, there's a danger that's going to sound trite. We all talk about that and companies talk about values and talk about bringing yourself to work. But I think it's saying, you know, you're not operating one version of yourself professionally and another in your private life.
For all of us, we navigate so many different life experiences throughout our careers, you know, from the [00:07:00] freshness of our first real job. To sort of starting and raising a family perhaps, or not starting and raising a family, you know, we manage loss, illness, you know, all of those tough things that are going to shape us.
And I think being human at work allows us to acknowledge those changes without compromising who we are every day when we come in, you know, and it's not about being overwhelmed by what's going on in your personal life. It's about being comfortable and authentic and saying something as simple as. Look, I've had a lousy night's sleep, so forgive me if I seem less fired up this morning.
It's temporary. I'll be back. I'll have another coffee. But Not being afraid to sort of acknowledge that you're not maybe going to be 100 percent that day or it'll take you 30 minutes to get up and running or other more serious issues, but you know, not having to bury all of that stuff have this totally separate sort of sheen or persona on yourself in your day to day work.
Helen Wada: I think it's really important and
with the human advantage and the [00:08:00] group
coaching work
that we do where
we supporting individuals and leaders.
The Human Framework
Helen Wada: The human framework that we've created starts with how you show up. So the H is about how you show up. We then talk about understanding others.
We then talk about the mindset that people need to be in on a day to day basis. And then once you're in that mindset, how do you act and adapt? Because nothing is so easy. Ever goes to plan, like, how do you need to act and adapt to the situation? And then,
you know,
how do you take forward? Those next steps.
So the human framework is really central for me to support the clients that we work with, to help their leaders and those developing their careers, think about themselves in a structured way but one that's authentic and picking up on that point about, you know
Not leaving our whole selves at home that we can bring some of us.
But
for me, there's
also a point about how you show up about knowing your value and [00:09:00] knowing your skills, but particularly as you continue your career journey or, you're working with customers. And I'm curious to understand from your perspective,
you That, confidence
of how
show
up, knowing who you are and the value that you
bring
each and every day,
how has that
worked
for you over the years and developed?
Roisin Hennerty: Think for me, there's a few things that have percolated up.
Look back my career, I see that maybe one or two of them were intuitive for me. So I think I was very lucky to have certain skills, or develop certain skills early in my career without a coaching environment or without sort of real cognizance about them.
But I can boil them down to a couple of very simple techniques or simple ideas.
Which I think about a lot for myself and I share with, those I work with and team members and different areas. But I think the first one that I've always consciously or unconsciously, but consciously in, in the last few decades of my career, I've led with the idea of [00:10:00] being really clear on your objectives and your goals, both as an individual within a business.
And, you know, within your sort of team. So understanding, understanding your business unit goals and understanding what your role within that set of goals is really important. And when you have that, you could practice being strategic, keeping your eye on the plan and saying no to other opportunities or even distractions as they arise.
Because you mentioned earlier, Helen, you know, that you went into sales sort of unexpectedly, you've gone from a financial side and moved into that side of things. And I think those of us that are inclined to more of a sales disposition, which I am as well, will always acknowledge that there is that pleasure you get in the wind, like landing a customer, landing a client.
Increasing the sales, meeting those goals. That's all part of what you're driving toward. It can be very easy to get, you know, distracted by an opportunity to go even further faster. And that might be outside of the realm of what you're, you know, required to do [00:11:00] in a business, or might be more than the organization to do at the time.
So getting that balance on objectives and focus is really important. That'd be the first thing for me. I think the second one, when we think about our own careers and our development on our career paths.
Owning Your Narrative
Roisin Hennerty: Is around your personal narrative. I think it's really important that we don't let others interpret our story, that we build out that sort of vision, ambition, and articulate ourselves clearly.
It doesn't have to be fancy. It doesn't have to be lofty, but if you do want to be very explicit in your career path, being able to articulate that And, acknowledge it's not spontaneous, you do have to work at it. it.
Helen Wada: Yeah. both of those resonate with me ish. The first, the conversation we had last week with the amazing Alina Addison we were talking about, what do you need to let go of? And I think, you know, people that are hungry to do different things and expand their careers and get that experience.
Roisin Hennerty: Yeah.
Helen Wada: want to say yes, but it's about being strategic about saying no. And then [00:12:00] on your other point, it's that focus. So, you know, there, there's sort of two things at the same coin, really, in terms of you're focusing on who you are, rather than what other people think you should be, or, you know, I mean I've had a transition, For
20
plus years.
I was a
senior director
at KPMG and that was my narrative
coming out and setting up the
human advantage.
Roisin Hennerty: Yeah.
Helen Wada: It's, a new, world. And I have something that I work with clients on. It's sort of say it, believe it, become it. So it's that sort of transition to, you have to say it out loud. It's not good enough just to
write the
name of, you know, what you do on the of it.
Who am I? I'm Helen Waddle. I'm the founder of the Human Advantage. I'm an executive coach with works
with
commercial leaders,
Roisin Hennerty: Yeah.
Helen Wada: to
develop themselves and their but that's taken. A long time to reframe that narrative. And, so I think it's about where the coaching comes in sort of unpicks. [00:13:00] It's not easy sometimes for us to know you
say you've been fortunate and a lot of this comes naturally intuitively to you, but for it doesn't.
And I think that's where sometimes
coaching
can really help to take
Roisin Hennerty: Completely.
Helen Wada: a pause to unpick
what's
important to me, where do I want to be? And How am I going to get there?
Roisin Hennerty: And I think coaching as well can be really important those individuals where some of this just doesn't, it's not a natural journey. And I think an example I would often use with, team members and people I'm working with is to think about, you know, the leadership team of most big organizations nowadays.
They're thinking about succession planning. They're thinking about the hypos in their organization. Yeah. Absolutely. And they're looking around the business to say, right, who's, who've we got out there? Who have we not yet invested in and how can we support them? And owning your narrative can also be an enabler for you in the event you [00:14:00] really want to be seen.
Not all managers will be great at representing and advocating for their team.
So owning your own narrative to make sure that you're seen out there and people understand where you want to get to and what you've achieved. That can a really important development and coaching can help with that. people also have to, be aware not everybody views us the way we view ourselves.
Helen Wada: the other piece that I would add to that is accountability. I think we do have to take accountability for ourselves. You know I have seen in my career a number of people that think it's, you know, maybe the organization's responsibility to move them forward or to, I am not actually it.
It comes down to self accountability and if it's something that really
important to you. you,
Then
taking ownership,
finding a voice, driving your own narrative to your words that
you're talking about at the beginning,
Roisin Hennerty: And there are lot of people out there confuse ambition with the company's responsibility. And I think, you know [00:15:00] that's
Helen Wada: Yeah.
Roisin Hennerty: on with that
Helen Wada: Yeah.
The next part of the
human
Understanding Others
Helen Wada: framework is about understanding others. And I see that crucially important, not just when I'm
coaching, but customer relationships,
sales,
you know,
the stakeholders that
you work with. And
I'm curious
to you have that natural ability to connect
with
people, develop a business
from pretty much nothing.
How have those skills of understanding others been essential to you in the work that you've done over the years?
Roisin Hennerty: I think they've been really important. I think they've been fundamental. And, you know, If we don't take the time to understand others we could be working at odds in any situation or environment. So I think it's very important. There's so much wrapped up in this, but again, if we try and boil it down to a few things that I think about. I think, you know, managing stakeholders is something that people should lead with. It doesn't matter what, who the stakeholder is, it could be your dentist, but let's get into it. [00:16:00] Let's decide, you know, is this person clear on what I'm doing? Are they clear on what I'm here for? And are we going to come out the other side of this, recognizing that we have different needs to be met and establishing a dialogue around that.
So stakeholders for all of us in the working world are absolutely critical. and calibrating against the needs of your stakeholder and against your, you know, your KPIs or your objectives. All of that is really important. And relationships are also enablers of that that process, if you like. The more time we spend at the beginning, early on understanding those stakeholder concerns and areas, I think the more successful we will, be in sort of developing that relationship when it comes to customers as well.
Negotiation Skills and Stakeholder Management
Roisin Hennerty: Okay, I think negotiation skills are critical skills. I think we all have to understand what represents. A good negotiation, but not every negotiation is an [00:17:00] ultimatum
Helen Wada: Yeah.
Roisin Hennerty: and for people directly involved with customers, more so than clients, you know, customers, you know, in the more traditional sense, I think it's really important not to have every engagement be a negotiation
work with them as strategic partners on shared goals.
Because if your relationship is boiled down to just negotiations, it's tactical. it's outcome driven every time and you're never going to make progress there. So I think stakeholder management and negotiation skills are absolutely critical.
Helen Wada: And, those sort
of down,
just unpicking them a little bit more Asian. what are they? So,
so yes, we talk about, you know, building relationships. Yes, we talk about negotiation, and for me, on the one that's all very well and good, but actually when we're boarding it down what are those skills that you're using?
If you were to take a step back, say, what was it that I did? That made me able to connect
in
the first place. We talked about food, but you know
the world
is [00:18:00] increasingly competitive. And so actually our, customers have lots
of choice out there and
there's
procurement involved, all these kinds of
things.
So
when
you think about
those skills that you
need
in today's world
to
build those
connections, understand there's
what would
Roisin Hennerty: going one level deeper?
I would always think about the broader context of a negotiation. Often in a negotiation, we can be talking about financial or commercial outcome. And it's very simple. It's pretty black and white. But there are other aspects and shades within a negotiation. You know, you might be establishing a potential partner for a future, you know, JV or a merger or a sale.
So maybe your negotiation won't have the outcome you want, but you're also laying the groundwork for a potential future outcome. You might be negotiating with the customer on a tender process or a contract. And there's a possibility you might not win [00:19:00] this contract, but what do you want them to know about you?
What do you want to leave in the room after you? Will they come back to you the next time because they'd really like you to win that bid the next time? So all of these things, if you think about individuals negotiating for themselves in an environment, so I might be asking my manager for development opportunities.
might be pitching up to say I want a raise. If it's as simple as I want this much and I'm not going to move off of my position, that's not a negotiation. That's an ultimatum. At the moment you move into that territory and you're giving the person on the opposite side of the table an ultimatum, that is not a negotiation.
So I think for all of us walking away from an engagement and recognizing there's a long list of things you could come out of the room with, and some of those may not be financial, they may not be commercial, but might add value to you or to your business over time to think about those a little more deeply.
Helen Wada: [00:20:00] I think that's, I think that's super important. It's about this look, taking
a slightly longer term view, as you said, it, it may
not be that means a business
that you win,
but going back to where we started, how you show up, knowing yourself and your value, understanding what's important to your customer and adding insight in, through those conversations, because it's an opportunity for you to add insight.
The more that you know, the more you can add insight. And. Again as, a coach, one of the things that we do it's, drawing out from our clients what's within themselves,
but
offering
a
perspective, maybe a mirror,
maybe
connecting the dots.
I was with a client for
lunch
last week.
And we had a conversation over one and a half, two hours, and were
two, a
couple of different
things that she'd shared with me and towards the end of the conversation, I was like, well, I was
able
to draw this and this together
and she was like, I've never thought about it like that,
only
I could
[00:21:00] do that to add insight for her.
her
Was by properly listening, by
being curious,
by understanding
what was
going on her
Roisin Hennerty: Yeah. Absolutely.
Helen Wada: to then add that piece of value.
Was that going to
lead
to immediate
piece of
work? Absolutely not. But did she then see me as somebody that could support her and her
thinking?
I
so.
so.
Roisin Hennerty: Absolutely,
Helen Wada: and
it kind of brings
us neatly.
Anybody would
have thought
we'd plan this conversation. We've done a little bit of prep, but
Roisin Hennerty: Yeah.
Helen Wada: me, the M
in human
is our mindset. is right in the middle.
Roisin Hennerty: Yeah.
Helen Wada: say that as I about my career and
Career Journey Overview
Helen Wada: people say to me, well the jumps that you've taken, you know, for those listeners that are coming new to this podcast, there was
Chartered accountant with Arthur Anderson for those of you
that
remember,
did a a lot of audit equity work, moved
to industry, did a
master's
in management
development and change before moving into a consulting career.
And it was only towards [00:22:00] the end of my career
at
KPMG that I spent five,
six years as a
global director in sales
role
and
now running
my own
business.
Mindset and Resilience
Helen Wada: And so the, I think the mindset that I've always had is that I can do. I'm following my interests. I
want to learn. I
want to grow.
Roisin Hennerty: Yeah.
Helen Wada: and I'm just interested
in, your
mindset,
because,
you know, I talk about the two things.
There's the commercial element of business.
But I very much believe that you intertwine that with a coaching
mindset, which is where I'm at now.
And, for me, the power of having a commercial coaching mindset together
we're bringing these
human qualities, but with a commercial edge. And I'm just interested in how you've, know, your own
mindset and you've experienced
over the years.
Yeah.
Roisin Hennerty: you're spot on. And I do think there's there's so much behind this now, again, if you're not somebody who's reflective, if you're more of a problem solver as, tactical people will [00:23:00] sometimes call themselves you may never spend any time considering how you got to where you were and, you know, what the influences are, but.
I think mindset is really critical, and we can all look back and see those moments where we wish we could have behaved a bit differently or felt a bit differently, or we recognize that how we were feeling was really impacting how we were behaving in a situation. But I think, you know having a work ethic, I grew in a family where, you know, we were all expected as soon as we were at a certain age to get out and get a part time job and sort of understand the value of doing and, you being busy and active.
So I think that helps having. On your work ethic. But I think also for me having taken a few risks early on on one or two of those very early in my career went very wrong or didn't work out. They challenged me, but they did teach me early lessons in resilience. And they taught me quickly that I was probably tough enough to [00:24:00] weather certain challenges.
And, you know, as long as I could sort of see the road ahead, and it was a limited time only challenge, I could usually get my way through it and work out the other side. And I think they were really important in building a mindset of resilience. So I'll try this. It's not, it doesn't feel great.
I don't think this is where I want to be for too long, but I could probably do this for six months or a year and then, you know, get the experience and move on. So think taking that step. uncomfortable territory at any time is always good for us. But I think you do it earlier in your career, even if the outcome is a failure on some level, it can be really important for development.
that's the first one for me.
Helen Wada: Yeah, no I love that.
Stepping Out of Comfort Zones
Helen Wada: And I think there's two, two things in there.
there's the
risk taking
Is the stepping out of your comfort zone. You know, coming back to coaching, it's supporting individuals to take a step out of whatever is comfortable for them. Because whatever is comfortable for you is [00:25:00] different from what's comfortable for me.
And it's about taking that step and giving yourself the confidence and the courage
to
make that. And then you talk about resilience and particularly when we're talking about commercial conversations and business. There is a huge amount of resilience that is needed because.
Things don't always go to plan,
you You can try,
as you say, you fail
or another way, you
Learning,
Roisin Hennerty: Yeah.
Helen Wada: but resilience that you need to keep going.
And it's a long journey, right? It's
not,
I
think today's world, there's a lot of, you know, we have to get that gratification
very quickly. It has to be immediate, that dopamine,
but
actually
world,
the
best relationships and the
best
work can
often be won over a
period of time.
Roisin Hennerty: Absolutely. Yeah.
Handling Setbacks and Building Resilience
Roisin Hennerty: Topic, just to expand on it a little further, there can a bit of a cliff edge for people. And I it's been the same for me as well. You know. [00:26:00] You're rocking up to apply for that role. You through the process, you put your all into it and you're so focused on getting it, we don't spend any time thinking about what happens if we don't get it, but if we're not the successful candidates and that can be, really derailing for one, oneself for oneself, confidence and for individuals.
And I think that is something to think about when you're going for anything, when you're making a change, think about all the outcomes, the positive, but understand how. You will need to sort of, you know, gear yourself up for things going as planned and, what will you do afterwards? So I think that's really important and challenging yourself to be resilient because there will be no's for all of us in our
Helen Wada: yeah, and,
Roisin Hennerty: or whether we're employed in an organization.
but You kind of have to pick yourself up and dust yourself down and get on with it, you know.
Helen Wada: and knowing how to pick things up, how to keep in touch. There was so
many times where, for example, you We wouldn't want the first piece of business, [00:27:00] but actually
the selected provider
would
not work out.
Roisin Hennerty: Yeah,
Helen Wada: you're keeping in touch and unless you're following up and unless you're continuing to
build, establish
those relationships,
Roisin Hennerty: yeah.
Helen Wada: you won't be in the wings
to
pick up what might be the opportunity down the road.
Roisin Hennerty: All of that is so important, like, and not being broader about all of those engagements.
Authenticity and First Impressions
Roisin Hennerty: I think as well, one of the other things I would say, aside from that sort of resilience piece, is being comfortable your own skin, so being authentic and understanding how to be comfortable in your own skin.
Can be very challenging depending on the moment, depending on the situation, or depending on where you are on your journey, and I think for all of us, it takes time to relax into that. But, You know, people often make assumptions about us when we're in a new environment, in a new situation, so use your voice, speak up, think about it before you go into the situation.
How will I introduce myself, or what if You know, I'm in this room full of really intimidating, really high level customers or [00:28:00] individuals or stakeholders or board members. How do I want to be seen and heard? I better know what going to say about myself. So that's really important. Don't let others interpret you. Don't let others make assumptions or consider motivations that aren't yours. You know, be in that moment, step in, speak up and clarify your perspective.
Helen Wada: I I love that. And it's
that how
you show up, it's the age of the human
because those impressions count.
Roisin Hennerty: Yeah,
Helen Wada: first impressions count, but we do need to adapt.
So
kind of moving forward.
Adapting in Business Conversations
Helen Wada: Are there times in your career where you've experienced where things haven't gone according to plan, whether it's a meeting, whether sense, you know, I need to
change course here,
and learnings
on the back of that adapting in the moment.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Roisin Hennerty: And if you think about
the
context of conversations that we have across our career, it could be a conversation with the client, it could be a conversation with the customer [00:29:00] or a stakeholder or even with the team member, you know, lots of times those discussions are difficult by their nature.
Like business is not always easy and many of these engagements are difficult. But I think if you prep for them you know, script them yourself, do a little bit of role play, think about, you know, what derailers might come up, what positives might come up. You know, we all want to believe in the outcome we want to believe in.
We all want to believe this is the perfect. You know relationship, or this will be the perfect acquisition, or this will be the perfect deal or whatever it might be.
Helen Wada: Yeah.
Roisin Hennerty: it'll be a lot easier to navigate and you'll be more confident about retaining control where you do have some level of control.
It'll take the emotion out of some of that engagement. And I think my own view is writing down a lot of that stuff in advance, you know, noting it down, understand, sitting in it for a while and considering all those potential derailers.
is a very important part of the process [00:30:00] and remembering none of this is personal.
It's business. We're there for business. we're there to
Helen Wada: Yeah.
Roisin Hennerty: and try not to get sucked into it personally much. Try not to feel too weighted in it yourself so that if it doesn't go well for you, you can adapt when you come out. Yeah,
Helen Wada: recognizing where you
are in
those conversations and where your, stakeholders are, where your customers are.
Roisin Hennerty: Yeah.
Helen Wada: to them. I mean, for
me, that's
what's, important
to you right
here. You mentioned it when you talked about negotiation, it's not a one way.
It's
what's
important
to you right here.
And yes, there may be
something financial,
but actually,
is
this conversation
going the
right
way? we helping you
Get to where
you need
to be
Roisin Hennerty: yeah,
Helen Wada: and
pausing
and
having
that
moment
of
clarity,
But
rather than sort of railroading conversations.
Sometimes
you, we've all been in meetings where people just don't stop talking,
Roisin Hennerty: [00:31:00] absolutely. I mean this is something I think we'll get into a little bit but yeah,
This is One that I hear you you're, so right.
Yeah.
Helen Wada: tongue.
Shut
up now on the basis of everybody talking.
Roisin Hennerty: Well
maybe we, later I know this, a sort of an unwind that we'll get to, but maybe at the end
Helen Wada: Okay.
Roisin Hennerty: to that one and think about that one a little
Helen Wada: Yeah, no, that that sounds good. And we are coming in very conscious of time. These conversations fly
and the end of
the human is the next steps. because for me,
you talk about meetings. There are so
many meetings that happen every day where people don't
have actions.
There any next steps.
What was
the point
of getting
the conversation? And
I think
it goes back to ultimately where we were starting. Thinking about your stakeholders, thinking about what you want from conversations, thinking about what they want from conversations, whether
it's internal,
external with your team, but in order for that time
to
be valuable,
what
are
the [00:32:00] next
steps?
And so here I'm of going to say, well,
what
would you do for
people
listening to the human wise
podcast,
thinking their career, their commercial relationships?
What
are some of your top tips and next steps
that
they should do having listened to us
Roisin Hennerty: Yeah. Well, I think a couple of things, I think maybe the headline for me is calibration. You know, everything can fall under that headline. Next steps are always around calibration, you know, where am I now, where am I going, what do I need to get done. But if you think about calibration, I would say calibrate your ambition, whether it's personal or whether it's for the business, your business.
that ambition against that of the environment. So do that frequently enough so you understand whether the opportunity that you want, that you're going after. Is actually available in the business that you're working in and be realistic about what you need to do next. If it's there and if it's not there, how are you going to [00:33:00] facilitate it?
it? How are you going to add to what you're doing today to keep that ambition in front of you, even if that direct engagement or that relationship is not going to. get you where you need to go as quickly as you want to get there. So for me, calibrating regularly and frequently across, you know, personal and professional goals is really important.
Helen Wada: Question
that
people would be thinking about? We, whether this comes back to your talking in meetings, or whatever, but
a question,
listeners to think about. Because I love questions because
I'm a a
coach,
so I love questions.
But
being a question means we have to think about it. And think, you know the
reflection piece,
that resilience if
you're asking yourself a
question. It helps to really percolate that thinking a
little bit
little bit
Roisin Hennerty: Yeah, it really does. It's a great tool. Well, I think to think about it in two ways, maybe one client relationships and the other career, and I'll start with the client piece and go back to what we were just talking about.
Effective Listening and Client Relationships
Roisin Hennerty: And the starting point for me is, are [00:34:00] you listening? Are you listening effectively? And are you aligned on your shared objectives? I mean, you said it earlier in the conversation. We've all been in rooms where, you know, people are speaking and other people tune out, they stop listening, But the individual who's there to provide you with the service, who's maybe you're their client, so busy talking, they have no idea what you're actually looking for, and you become very frustrated on the other end of that
Helen Wada: yeah,
Roisin Hennerty: engagement, so effective listening is a skill, something you really need to practice consciously,
Helen Wada: I love it. I mean,
it's,
Roisin Hennerty: to me, I think
Helen Wada: it, really is. And it's very much part of the module we look about understanding others and
it's interesting because I've spoken to people that will, it's
just listening. Of
course I can listen. It's like, can you really listen? I've been listening in
learning
to listen and practicing listening for
10 years through my
coach
training.
it's not
something
that we think we listen to And my kids are like,
mum,
you're really not listening to me. And I know I'm not [00:35:00] perfect.
Roisin Hennerty: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Helen Wada: a skill.
So I think that's, I think that's super important.
And
Very shin.
And what about the career? You said there was one for career as well.
Question.
Roisin Hennerty: Yeah.
Reflecting on Career Progress
Roisin Hennerty: the question that I would ask people is, you know, are you looking back to look forward? Because I think that's a useful question to think about. Are you taking the time to consider your career journey, the path that you're on and where you want to take it? And I think looking back to look forward is a really good use of your time to reflect on the moment that you're in.
Yeah. Look back, take stock, and then consider where you want to go next. Because, you know, I've met one or two people in my career who are completely the antithesis of myself. Those are people who wake up when they're five years old and say, you know, I'm going to be a doctor or going to be a, you know, an accountant or
Helen Wada: Yeah.
Roisin Hennerty: to that point and usually these are people that are very driven and they could be in their 30s and they're like, Oh my God, I'm here.
What's [00:36:00] next?
Helen Wada: Yeah.
Roisin Hennerty: you know, being so fast on that journey and so focused on that journey that we don't pause and reflect and ask ourselves, you know, how have I gotten here? Where am I going to go next? I think that's really important. So for me, you looking back look forward?
Helen Wada: Oh, I love it.
Conclusion and Final Thoughts
Helen Wada: it's been wonderful
to have you
the show, Róisín.
I mean that.
And if
people want to learn more about your career
and
what you're up to now with your advisory
work, where can they
find you?
Roisin Hennerty: They can find me on LinkedIn. I'm very easy to find there and very contactable through LinkedIn and
Helen Wada: Awesome. Thanks Very soon.
Roisin Hennerty: you, Helen. Love the podcast. Thank you for having me on. of great insights, loads of great tips for all of us that need a bit of help, you know, from time to time. So thank you for having me
Helen Wada: We all do. We're all learning. Thanks Have a great day.
Roisin Hennerty: Cheers. Bye bye.
Helen Wada: Bye
bye. [00:37:00]