Ep32: Navigating Executive Coaching and Business with Bill Berman
Discover the art of being human at work and the challenges of leadership in this exciting episode of Human Wise Podcast. Join Bill Berman, founder of Berman Leadership, as he delves into the essence of authentic leadership and navigating the complex tapestry of career paths in 2025. Bill shares invaluable insights from his journey as a psychologist turned executive coach, revealing how breadth of experience empowers leaders to drive meaningful change in today's dynamic workplace environment.
Explore themes of authenticity, timing, and tact at work, and the balancing act between prioritizing individual needs versus organizational demands. Helen Wada and Bill Berman engage in a rich discussion about creating a human-centered workplace while maintaining commercial edge—transforming challenges into opportunities. Whether you're an executive, aspiring leader, or curious professional, this episode equips you with actionable strategies to foster sustainable success and cultivate a more human working world. Don't miss out on transforming your professional approach with these thought-provoking insights.
Topics Discussed:
Executive coaching for business leaders
Balancing individual and organization needs
Psychological safety in workplace relationships
Importance of self-awareness in leadership
Building trust through deeper conversations
Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction
04:30 Authenticity and Empathy at Work
07:13 "Prioritizing Group Needs Over Individual"
11:29 Coaching: Integrating Psychology and Business
16:38 Coaching's Impact on Business ROI
17:40 Balancing Individual and Entity Impact
22:43 The Power of Authentic Conversations
26:38 Levels of Self-Awareness
29:25 Self-Discovery and Purpose Reflection
33:09 Life Shifts and Structure Phases
38:06 Building Trust Beyond Transactions
39:15 Embracing Deeper Conversations
43:59 Balancing Personal and Professional Needs
46:08 Celebrating Humanity and Collaboration
About Bill Berman
Bill is a seasoned consultant with more than 30 years’ experience as an executive coach, senior line manager, clinician and academic. He has been assessing individuals since 1983, delivered organizational consulting and executive coaching since 1993, and has consulted to executives and C-suite business leaders since returning to full-time consulting in 2004. Bill has advised executives from multiple industries, including financial services, pharmaceuticals, publishing, and technology companies, and worked with CEOs and teams at the C-suite, managing director, and general/functional management levels. Bill started his own software company in 1994 to track healthcare outcomes, which he grew and subsequently sold to The Echo Group, an enterprise healthcare information system company. He served on Echo’s executive management team as chief clinical officer and head of professional services, expanding the services to generate 25% of annual corporate revenues through consulting, implementation, training, and support functions.
Bill received his B.A. from Harvard College, and his Ph.D. from Yale University. He is licensed in NY and CT. He is a fellow of the American Psychological Association and board certified by the American College of Professional Psychology.
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Description texEp.32 - Navigating Executive Coaching and Business with Bill Berman
[00:00:00]
Introduction and Guest Welcome
Helen Wada: Hello, and welcome to another episode of human wise. I am absolutely delighted to have Bill Berman here all the way from the other side of the pond. Bill welcome head of Berman leadership, executive coaching and leadership business. But that's not where your career started, was it?
Helen Wada: You've worked in an industry and an entrepreneur and tell us a little bit more about your background and [00:01:00] who you are for the listeners.
Bill Berman: So I've had three and a half careers. The half career was I spent some time as a chef and then in college and then realized what an awful sort of way to live your life that is.
Helen Wada: They
Bill Berman: know what their hours are like, so, but I became a psychologist after that. So I spent my first real career was as a clinical psychologist working in community mental health centers and hospitals. And so I did that for about 10 years and then I was a full time academic at Fordham University.
I was doing research, teaching, and clinical work, and uh, in the early 90s, I started a consulting firm that had one really good project for the Xerox Corporation and could not sell any other. Projects. So, but we had built my partner and I had built some software to run this project that was looking at outcomes of health care.[00:02:00]
And when we started telling people in the early nineties that we had software, they got very excited because that was the thing back then, as it still is. And, so we ended up starting as a software company which I grew and ended up leaving Fordham to run that full time and uh, sold it to another healthcare information system in, in 2000.
And then I worked for them for four years running their professional services group. So had P and L responsibility, had a team of about 30 folks that worked for me. And we worked all over the country. So, and then in 2004, so sort of the residue of the dot com bubble bursting and company really was struggling unfortunately.
Transition to Executive Coaching
Bill Berman: And uh, so I left and had a coach to help me think about what my next job would be. And we came up with executive coaching. So in 2004, 2005, I started doing executive coaching and I've been [00:03:00] doing it ever since.
Helen Wada: Oh, fantastic. And it's, I love the rich richness of that career bill because I think it just shows that, and I think particularly in today's, you know, in 2025, there's not that old, you know, this is your career for life.
It's about a tapestry. And I think that richness makes you who you are. Brings the qualities to all those that you work with and lead and coach as you run Berman leadership today. So, you know, it's fabulous to hear that.
Bill Berman: And I think one of the things that I bring to the table in my own work is that sense of breadth and that sort of looking broadly and understanding broadly what the opportunities are.
So I often challenge my clients to consider alternatives that they hadn't thought about. And I think that's that's one of the ways that I'm really adding value for a lot of them.
Helen Wada: And I think we'll probably come to that a little bit [00:04:00] later on, because as you know, you know, a lot of people, both actually that you and I work with are sort of professional service leaders that are technical experts in what they do.
But actually sometimes that breadth is, Maybe a bit more daunting for some than it is for others. And I think, you know, over the course of the conversation, we'll tap into that and explore, you know, what can you do as you step out of your comfort zone.
Human-Centered Leadership
Helen Wada: But before we get into that, before we get into the meat of the conversation, I always like to ask the guests on the show, human wise, what does being human at work mean to you?
Bill Berman: I think it means being authentic. So being and we'll talk, we may talk about this later, but it means being authentic with timing intact. So, you know, authentic doesn't mean just saying everything that comes to your mind, but it means saying the things that are important to you. So I think part of it's that.
I think part of it is caring about the people. And knowing that [00:05:00] they have lives and Priorities that, that don't always include or are where you're not always the top of it. And while I know my work is important, my business is important. I know people are people and they have kids and they have families and that those things play a role in their lives as well.
So I think it's I think it's those two things really
Helen Wada: And it's interesting you said that timing intact and you mentioned there about sort of standing up for what's important to you and organizations to realize that the conversations that I've had and, you know, as I researched the book as well, there is this kind of challenge and you will have seen it running a business sort of between the collective, what you're trying to do for the business.
And acknowledging the importance of being human centered leadership. Around the people.
Balancing Individual and Business Needs
Helen Wada: And I'm just curious with your experience, how you were able to balance those and what we need to be thinking about because they really are sort of [00:06:00] two sides of the same coin and often pull against each other.
Bill Berman: You know, this comes up all the time with the executives that I work with and my team works with when you're the head of a business. Whether you're responsible for 10 other people or 10, 000 other people your ethical focus cannot just be on individuals. And we generally have individual ethics.
We think about the person that we're dealing with, that person's needs and responsibilities. We fear, we think about their well being but as a, as an executive and as the head of a business, you've got a whole, your entire business worth of people. And customers that are relying on you. And so you have to think about the needs of them.
I'm going to sound like Mr. Spock. You have to think about the needs of the many [00:07:00] more than the needs of the one. And you know, if I have somebody who, for example, is underperforming if I'm. Not direct with them and open with them about the fact that I, they're not doing what's needed. I'm not only hurt.
I'm, I may be helping them, but I could be potentially hurting everybody on the team or everybody in the organization. If things are delayed or things are not delivered at the quality we need, or there's not the movement that we need that hurts everybody. And so you really, as an executive have to think about everybody's needs in that.
In that context and focus on that. And I do think that makes it easier for executives to be more direct to be more open with people because they're being driven by the needs of that entire organization.
Helen Wada: And I think that's a really important point to make, isn't it? Because I know, you know, a lot of people that I [00:08:00] work with, you struggle sometimes with what might be a difficult conversation where you're faced with this.
This pool, you know, you really do want to be focused on the individual in front of you because you care and you are a human leader, but actually the business needs are the business needs. And you know, for me, what it also comes down to, and it's that timing intact is as individuals in, within a system, we also have to take responsibility for ourselves.
Bill Berman: Absolutely.
Helen Wada: And so the two have to marry together because. It's not only, and I see this time and time again, you know, people can blame the system. You know, we talk about being human, being authentic, there is an argument and there's an argument in the post pandemic world that we may have stretched too far in wrapping cotton wool around people and bowing to every request that there may [00:09:00] be.
If you don't respond to those requests, it's not that you're not human centered. But that you are an executive leader that is, is operating within a system, as you say with shareholders, with customers, with other team members with suppliers, you know. The systems abroad, right?
Bill Berman: Absolutely.
Absolutely. And they're, and all of those things are relying on you. All of your customers are relying on you to deliver what you said you were going to deliver. Whether it's, you know, healthy food or quality software. Or, you know, audit services you know, from a professional services organization, they're, you're, they're counting on you to do what it is you said you were going to do.
And if you're not on top of the organization and making sure the organization's doing what it needs, which means all the individuals, then you're not Honoring your responsibility as the business head. [00:10:00] So it's really a, uh, it's a challenge for people when it comes to being really direct with people and having tough conversations with them.
Whether it's about technical skills or about leadership skills, they're all equally important and, or, you know, playing on a team skills. Those are all things that, that we need people to focus on and be good at.
Helen Wada: And drawing back to your, you know, you explained your history and, you know, business doesn't always go the way that we want it, right.
There's tough times. What have you drawn on, you know, with that psychology background now being.
The Role of Self-Awareness
Helen Wada: Trained as an executive coach, you understand for the most part how the mind, the body works and so forth. What are some of the things that you do and help others to do as they deal with some of these difficult.
Situations that they find themselves in,
Bill Berman: you know, it's a combination of things. There as a coach, what [00:11:00] I encourage all of my coaches is to think psychologically but act as a business person. So it's our job to, to understand the whole person that we're working with, to understand their fears and their anxieties and their needs.
But it's also to understand their organization's needs and their business needs and their team needs. So it's, I grew up doing a lot of family systems work. So it was you know, not just focused on the individual, I also learned individual psychology, but we focused on the family system and how different people interact and how that affects each person.
And. And so I've always been thinking about how a system works and what the impact on the system is. So I think that's a critical part of what I bring. And you know, it's interesting. I'm fine seeing that as coaching is [00:12:00] developing. And growing, you're seeing more and more interest in not just the individual, but the individual in a system and in a, in multiple systems, really whether it's the team, the business, the community.
There are different levels of systems that have an impact on you. And so understanding the context in which a person's operating is really critical. I also learned that by understanding cultural differences and how those cultural differences play out. You know, in, in Western culture, we're very individually focused.
But if you look at other cultures there are many that are quite collectivist focus, and that's really what we're talking about is having a more collectivist focus and collectivist ethic as you think about your responsibilities as a business leader.
Helen Wada: I think you're right. There's a few things that I'd love to pick up on there, but that starting with that [00:13:00] collective approach is, you know, I talk about sustainable success.
The sustainable success that we need now is not just about the individual. I think gone are the days where it was all about me. Now, granted, there are still very many examples out there where the individual is, can be seen to be putting themselves first and it's not the collective approach, but I think, you know, when you overlay societal changes, when you overlay, you know, technology, you overlay what's going on our planet.
We do need to be collective together. And so it's thinking in that different way. You also talked about those two focuses that's a business focus and the coaching approach and it at the human advantage, you know, the framework that I've created that's going into the book is all around that the mindset of what I'm calling commercial coaching.
Cause on the one hand, it's about commercially [00:14:00] focused, you know, you are in a business that might be a charity, it might be, you have to be focused on the outcomes that you're trying to deliver for that organization, whatever those parameters are. And to do your best work, you need to have that laser sharp focused on the broader aspect of what you're going to do.
But. I then pull in the coaching side and go, but actually you can do that with coaching approach that talks about human centered leadership. It talks about being curious. It talks about understanding where others are coming from so that you're marrying the two together. And for me, I think that's so important as we move forward, as we try to.
Move to a more human working world where we've got that together.
Bill Berman: think that's one of the ways in which coaching in, in organizations or executive coaching is really different than sort of classical individual coaching. Because you can't just focus on the individual [00:15:00] and the individual's goals and needs and aspirations, you're really focused on that.
That person, but if you're being paid by the business, you have, they're your client as well. And you have to really think about what's in the best interest of that person in that organization. And you have to also understand the limits of that. And when you're only working with focused on the individual and when you're only focused on the business and how those things balance out.
So it's really different because it's more complex. Yeah,
Helen Wada: I think you're right. And that makes me think of a conversation I was having with another coach actually this morning, and we were talking about the ROI of coaching because, you know, you will see it as much as me in terms of when you're working with organizations, what is that?
Direct indirect link, because for me, being [00:16:00] super passionate about how a coaching culture is really supportive and actually can, if you're building those skills, can help you talk about sales in a moment, but can help you to actually grow relationships, grow the business. But for the most part, in my experience, never the twain shall meet, and it's generally seen as an investment that's got a little bit of traction towards how you might perform as a business, but it's still not quite there.
I don't know whether you're seeing more of that from the U. S. side of things, but I still think it's hard for people to make that direct link.
Bill Berman: maybe we are seeing it more in the U S and maybe it's just because the way I've grown up being both a psychologist and a business person that our firm is always been focused.
On both the commercial side of it and the personal side of it and thinking about not only what are the impacts of what I'm doing [00:17:00] for the individual, but what are the impacts? What's the impact for the larger for the larger entity that you're working with? When I was doing a lot of family therapy, I wasn't just focused on whether the individual had Their needs.
And often, oftentimes I found myself working against individual therapists because they weren't paying attention to what the organization, to what the family system was doing and what they were needing. And you know, sometimes you do have to emphasize the individual over the family or the individual over the business.
You know, we all have had clients that. Where the real answer for that individual was that you're in the wrong job or the wrong business for you and you really shouldn't be there. And. It's not our job to tell them they shouldn't be there, but if they're telling us, I think I'm in the wrong job. You can't really say, Oh no.
You should say [00:18:00] and so you really do have to pay attention to the individual needs but we're also working for the company. And so, you know, most of the time, I'm sure there are times where it's not true. But most of our clients they're interested in both the individual's needs and the business needs whether it's being more strategic or thinking on a more enterprise level or focusing on their team more effectively or being more inspirational.
These are all things that we end up working with and they're in the interest of both the individual and. And
Helen Wada: I think it's about setting those goals really clearly, isn't it? It's about being really clear about those goals upfront. And again where we're at and where I look at the coaching skills actually, and we've talked about yourselves in professional services environments and going out and winning work and the skills that you need.
To grow your business, to build relationships with customers, to have more effective [00:19:00] conversations with your suppliers. Those commercial conversations at the edge of an organization.
Bill Berman: Yeah. For
Helen Wada: me, it's some of the same skills that you have as a coach that you're using in those customer facing conversations, because it's about how you're showing up.
It's about getting under the skin of what other people, what is important to other people. And so actually, you know, for me, there's even more we can do to push the envelope to really prove that these skills that you and I have are blessed with, I would say, as coaches to bring into the world of work, even more than it is today to say, this isn't just.
A nice to have, this isn't just good for the individual. It's not just good for business, but actually it's critical for business. If you're having more effective, more impactful conversations with your customers, your suppliers, your partners, and your [00:20:00] team members. Think
Bill Berman: about it as a coach. One of the things.
You do for your client is you listen really carefully and you listen both for what they say and what they don't say. And we're also encouraging our clients to do that. And we do that, whether they're working, whether you're working with them on a relationship or in their business, you know, the most important thing you can do as a salesperson is listen to what the other person's needs are, because if you don't understand those needs.
You're not going to be able to sell them what it is you have to sell them. Now, keep in mind, I don't feel like I ever sell. I don't, I'm not a salesperson. I have a friend that I grew up
Helen Wada: with, you
Bill Berman: know, I have a friend who is, he could sell anything to anybody and he was a pure salesman. And I can't do [00:21:00] that.
I have to listen to what somebody wants and what their problems are and what their needs are. And if I can be helpful to them, great. And if I can't, okay, maybe I can find somebody else for you who can be helpful. It's I can't sit there and try to persuade you that you absolutely need what it is I have to sell.
It's just, it's not in my nature.
Helen Wada: And it comes back to that authenticity, that being cute, being human wise, is that how can you have a conversation with somebody that explores what's important to them? You know, you go back to your, the systemic piece and getting curious about what's in their system.
Yeah. What's important to them from a personal perspective, what's important to them from a professional perspective. Who were the other stakeholders? What might be the blockers from where they're right now, from where they want to go. These are all skills that we use with our coaching clients to help them unpick [00:22:00] situations.
And for me, there is so much power in those skills to help us think more commercially ultimately. But you also need trust. And I think that's something that you and I've talked about before, isn't it as well, Bill, because developing relationships with people You've never met before, which you may do from a supplier, customer perspective.
You need to be able to create that sort of psychological safety that we talk about in coaching, but that it applies across organizations and conversations.
Bill Berman: Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, it's the need to communicate clearly and to understand others and as you said, create a safe environment for them is just as relevant when you're talking about.
You know, creating a coaching practice or you know, building a leadership development program as you are when you're talking about how your team works together, we all need that. We're always protecting [00:23:00] ourselves and psychological safety is about self protection. And, you know, harm avoidance and we, people need to feel that they're gaining benefit and they're doing what's needed and in a safe context.
So we're, I think whatever, whether you're selling or you're dealing with suppliers or you're dealing with clients. You, that ability to listen effectively and tend to understand their needs at multiple levels and pay attention to those I think is what's, is a critical skill that we all need.
Helen Wada: It's that multiple levels important as well, Bill, because I think so often conversations end up at surface level. And we don't really, and I think we've all been there, haven't we? We've all gone to meetings and conversations where you've gone, haven't really got under the skin of what they really need or who they really are and what's really important to them.[00:24:00]
And even as skilled coaches who come with that approach, it can be difficult. You know, using phrases, tell me more and the power of silence. Yes. Just get people to talk that little bit more. And I think it's made chat more challenging in the hybrid world. A lot more meetings are on themes or zoom.
And sometimes it would be those tidbits that came out after the meeting. All those informal situations. We don't have those anymore. And so. It makes it even more important that we go in being aware. We talk about self awareness, the self protection, but in order to be aware, we have to know who we are and be confident in diving deeper.
So what does that look like? How did it show up? What does that really mean to you?
Bill Berman: So it, you know, it's interesting that you brought up, you know, knowing yourself because I think [00:25:00] that, that. That's a critical part of all of this that you really have to know who you are and what you're bringing to the table and what your strengths are and what your weaknesses are and what drives you.
And that self understanding is really an, or self awareness is really, Essential to the whole process. And, you know, we know that from working with clients, there's different levels of self awareness. that people have, right? There's what I call retrospective self awareness, which is, yeah, when I look back at that, yeah, I probably, you know, I could have done that better, right?
And then there's concurrent self awareness where you sort of realize what you're doing. Both good and not so good in the moment, but you don't really have any ability to anticipate that. And then there's the people who are really self aware who can really think about how they're going to [00:26:00] respond in the situation they're going to be in and how they want to respond.
You know, a a colleague of mine, Carol Kauffman, who's the founder of the Institute of Coaching we were talking, we were
Helen Wada: Wonderful lady. I was So on a web webinar a few weeks ago.
Bill Berman: We were talking, I've worked with her for years and we were talking about getting ready for a presentation.
And we both agreed that one of the most important things you have to do is think about how do you want other people to feel at the end of a presentation or the end of a meeting. And I think it's Maya Angelou who said, maybe, who said, people won't remember what you did, but they'll remember how you made them feel.
And, It's it's a critical element of what we do, and it requires that you be self aware. Because if I want people to feel a certain way, I have to know how I feel. And I have to know what I'm doing that's going to [00:27:00] elicit that feeling. And so, it's You know, you've got a, I think that's a critical part of self awareness is knowing what you do and how that impacts other people.
Helen Wada: And it reminds me of, you know, the training that I have done as I've continued to develop as a coach and Bill, let's be clear, I've been coaching for 10 years, but I am still learning. I'm still growing. Yeah. But particularly the advanced diploma with wonderful organization called Catalyst 1 4 here in the UK.
And Damien was actually one of my guests in the first series last year. But for me, it's that unpicking, taking time to unpick who you are, what's important to you, what's my purpose, where do I want to go? That's not, you know, huge on top of the world, but it's like, what's important to me, what's important to my family and therefore, how do I show up?
With what I do, what do I [00:28:00] do? You know, sometimes we ask ourselves those questions. You've changed career. I've changed career over the last few years and actually had numerous different careers before I left to set up the human advantage. And so I think it's sometimes again, we were too fast at running and doing and keeping going rather than pausing to reflect, understand who we are.
Because once we understand who we are, we then have the perspective, I think, to say, Well, if I'm feeling like this, well, how do other people feel? And can I get under the skin of how they're feeling and what's important to them? And sometimes, you know, you sit with people and they say, Nobody's ever asked me that.
And there's so many times when I'm coaching, I'm like, What's important to you,
Bill Berman: right?
Helen Wada: What gives you energy? And, you know, people look back at me and say, Well, I don't know. I've never taken time to think about it. But if we don't know ourselves, [00:29:00] we can't. begin to even understand others?
Bill Berman: Well, and, you know, that's not a one and done kind of thing, right?
Knowing yourself is an ongoing process because it changes based on where you are in your life where your family is, where you're, where your children are or your grandparents or your parents. So what matters to you changes over time. And so that kind of self understanding And understanding of the people we work with is always an ongoing process, right?
And you're, so you're always learning about yourself. It's just, it's a, in many ways, self awareness is a skill set that you learn and apply throughout your life.
Helen Wada: And it comes back to that, you know, when we're talking about commercial organizations or not for profit, it's re [00:30:00] evaluating where we're at because.
There are business chat, you know, I think back to my career. So, you know, chartered accountant for 1997 you're working long hours, exciting projects, international travel, all of that kind of stuff, you know, and there was a point in time where I had children and I wanted to platter with it, you know, it had always been go getting, you know, promotion, and then taking some time for that self awareness.
That the business needed something. And that wasn't right for me. That didn't mean actually that I left the organization. I was fortunate enough to have great opportunities if you know yourself. And if you're then able to articulate it, going back to where you started the conversation, sort of about the timing in tact, because it puts the responsibility back on us to say, is this working for me and having those trusting, honest conversations say.
These are the demands of the business. [00:31:00] Is that something that I want right now? Or do I shift and change direction?
Bill Berman: You know, you said that came up when you had children. It's often the external shifts in your world that, that trigger these sort of shifts in what your purpose is or, you know, what's motivating you or what your needs are.
At the moment. So having kids going to college parents retiring or getting ill. These are all things that have significant impacts on what we do. And it's interesting because if you track them out, they have a tendency to show up about every seven, eight years. And there were some researchers back in the seventies and eighties who talked about what they called their structure building phases of our lives and structure changing phases of our lives.
And it's things like having children that change the structure of your life and change your [00:32:00] priorities and change your values and change your purpose. And then you make those shifts and then they stay stable for a while, and then they ship again. But
Helen Wada: You then play that conversation about us, about individuals onto your suppliers, your customers, because if we're all experiencing that, absolutely.
So, our clients, our customers, our stakeholders, and. You know, I was with a client last week and he was talking about how, his children are grown away from home. So actually that's not a priority, but the business is really growing. And he's looking for people as he builds out the team, because that's what, you know, the ambition is there to grow and stretch.
And he was looking for new hires. And I was like, Oh, actually I might know somebody. If you don't understand where they're trying to get to from a personal perspective, from a professional perspective, some of these little things that actually don't cost you a lot can actually [00:33:00] be really valuable from just a connection, because you're just caring, you're just showing that you're trying to help. Because you know, that's what was important to us as individuals.
And if you're looking to build that trust, that connection beyond a transactional connection, you need to understand where your clients are coming from, where your partners are coming from, where your teams are coming.
And so Being able to have confidence to have a conversation beyond just the agenda in front of you to sit back and listen is super important. If you're trying to build your relationships, you're trying to build your network. Whether or not it's to help you, you know, work together in the future, it might be a referral.
But, you know, I've always had a motto since setting up on my own, sort of one conversation at a time. You never know where a conversation is going to lead. And that for me is part of the exciting world. Of running your own business is
Bill Berman: [00:34:00] absolutely
Helen Wada: getting out there, having a conversation, seeing what happens.
Bill Berman: You know, I think sometimes people are afraid to have those closer conversations, those deeper conversations because they don't want to they're worried about what will happen to them as they get to know that person and get to actually understand them. And I think it's easier for some people to keep it on a more sort of superficial level.
But I think at the end of the day you need that to have long term clients, not just transactional clients, but long term clients, long term relationships with suppliers, and that you have to have those. Sort of conversations. So, and, you know, I was I was at a conference last weekend and they were talking about the importance of both and thinking and that we tend to think that in either or think thinking, either I'm focused on you as an individual or I'm focused on.
The [00:35:00] business as a whole, either I'm focused on selling or I'm focusing on listening, but what we really have to do is what they called both. And so I have to be able to do both at the same time. And sometimes they're in contradiction. Sometimes they're complimentary. But you have to be able to sit with that sort of dialectic, if you will to really be able to do your job most effectively.
Helen Wada: I think you're right. And I think there is a, there's something out there that says the rise of procurement and so forth, that the world is a lot more competitive right now. And so you could argue that some of those long term. Relationships are less easy to win business from. I think that's absolutely fair to say, but I don't think it detracts from the importance, the increasing importance of getting to know people, what going back to the system, what's in their system, because for you to be successful in the increasingly competitive world that we're [00:36:00] operating in, you've got to be able to get to understanding what's going to help them the most.
Bill Berman: Yeah.
Helen Wada: And. You know, it might be somebody you've worked with many years ago. It might not be, they might be moving roles. So they, you need to follow relationships. Because ultimately, and I think, you know, Business is about relationships and having fun at the same time. Like they'll, you know, I've kind of got to say that life's too short.
We've got to be enjoying it. Yeah. Comes back to knowing who you are, what the value is and where you can be most successful for you and for the organization that you're working with.
It's been a really wonderful conversation with so many rich insights, we always love to leave the listeners with one tip reflecting on our conversation and a good coach loves a good question.
You know, that, and one question for them to reflect on having. Listen to us for the last 35, 40 minutes or so.
Bill Berman: So the, my tip would be to think about how you can [00:37:00] live and. And act on the notion of both and how you can meet both your needs and the needs of your customer, how you can think both about the ethics of the company and the ethics of the individual.
So it's, how do you man, how do you keep those sort of contradictory or complimentary aspects of your life at the same time? And because it's, that's harder, it's much harder than doing both of them doing one or the other. So that's my tip. My question would be, what's one thing you can do this week that will help you meet your needs and the needs of your organization at the same time?
So what's one small thing you can do that will make a [00:38:00] change
Helen Wada: I like that. Not easy to answer Bill, but I like a challenging question. Well, that's what we're
Bill Berman: here for. Right.
Helen Wada: I always start when I'm, you know, starting to work with a new coaching client on a one to one basis. So this is not a chat. This is actually hard work. And then when we get into it, they, you know, after a session of an hour and a half or two hours, and they look at me and they go, goodness, I'm quite exhausted.
I'm like, yeah, that's why I'm doing my job. That's
Bill Berman: right.
Helen Wada: It's been a real pleasure to have you on the show, Bill. . . It's been great to Worked together over the last year and look forward to future
Bill Berman: and thanks so much for having me.
It's been a pleasure talking with you it's a great show and i'm glad to be a part of it.
Helen Wada: Thank you very much.
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