Ep48: The Human Side of Risk and Relationships with Alisa Voznaya
What does it truly mean to be human at work—and how can embracing vulnerability, empathy, and authentic connection actually drive business success? In this inspiring episode of the Human Wise Podcast, we unpack the power of human-centered leadership and relationship-building with Alisa Voznaya, risk consulting partner at BDO.
Discover how Alisa transitioned from a career in academia and forensic intelligence to leading risk strategy and building a successful consulting practice. She shares candid lessons on conquering imposter syndrome, cultivating trust, and why the “human advantage” is essential in today’s business world. Together, Alisa and Helen discuss coaching, active listening, reframing sales as genuine connection, and the long-term impact of nurturing relationships—not just chasing short-term wins.
If you’re looking to foster more meaningful professional relationships, build trust with clients, and lead with authenticity in a results-driven world, this episode is packed with practical takeaways and personal stories you won’t want to miss. Tune in to start building your own human advantage at work!
Topics Discussed:
Building trust in client relationships
Human-centered approach to sales
Navigating professional vulnerability at work
Long-term business relationship strategies
Integrating coaching skills in consulting
Timestamps:
00:00 Risk as Opportunity and Enabler
06:44 Experiential Growth and Overcoming Uncertainty
08:11 Embracing Humanity in the Workplace
13:27 "Understanding Empathy at Work"
17:06 Effective Communication Requires Active Listening
19:06 Unpacking Personal and Professional Goals
23:52 Prioritize Long-term Success Over Metrics
24:51 "Honest Reflections Build Bonds"
28:10 Building Long-Term Professional Relationships
33:30 Turning Setbacks into Success
35:51 Conversations Drive Market Success
37:41 "Connecting for Success: Women's Advice"
About the Alisa Voznaya:
Follow @alisa-voznaya on LinkedIn
I am a Partner in BDO's Risk and Advisory Services team in London. I am the Head of Risk Transformation for the firm and specialise in providing substantial risk management change programmes and discrete Enterprise Risk Management (ERM) solutions. I have worked with clients on ERM, regulatory and integrity risk solutions for almost 15 years, supporting companies to improve strategic decision-making, risk culture and ways of working.
I have substantial experience working across a diverse client portfolio, including the FTSE100, and other multinational listed clients, as well as fast-growth private companies. My focus is to drive change and innovation across the delivery of multi-stage risk transformation projects, whilst reducing complexity and spotlighting the opportunity value and competitive advantage of effective risk management. Using an operating model lens, I help companies integrate pragmatic risk solutions that embed resilient risk cultures across organisation.
I hold a PhD from the University of Oxford in Politics, with a focus on corruption risks. My work has been published in peer-reviewed academic journals and picked up by mainstream media in explaining the sources of political corruption. I regularly contribute to BDO's thought leadership on risk management and transformation, and lead the UK's marketing of BDO Global's annual risk publication, the Global Risk Landscape Report. I lead the ERM Working Group for BDO Global, supporting our ambition to demonstrate excellence and innovation across our global network.
-
Ep48 - The Human Side of Risk and Relationships with Alisa Voznaya
[00:00:00]
[00:00:28] Introduction and Guest Welcome
[00:00:28] Helen Wada: So good afternoon, Alisa. It's so, so lovely to have you on the podcast. It's taken a couple of goes to get us there. Thank you to some technology, but we're here now and I'm really delighted to have you on the show.
[00:00:43] For listeners, Alisa is a partner of BDO Professional Services and Consulting Firm, and we were having a conversation a while back now about. What, what's selling? What is selling relationships? How do you build a business? And we kind of got really excited and I was like, do you know what? Let's have a [00:01:00] conversation on the pod.
[00:01:01] So delighted to be having you on the show. Can't wait for the conversation.
[00:01:05] Guest Background and Career Journey
[00:01:05] Helen Wada: Tell us a little bit more about you and what you do.
[00:01:07] you do.
[00:01:08] Alisa Vozyana: Aw. Thanks He and, And it is great to actually have this conversation with you on the podcast because I think every time we meet, we have this meeting of my. and it's great to actually bring it together in a more organized, structured way to be able to kind of suss out some of the things we've been talking about.
[00:01:23] So I am a risk consulting partner. I, as, as you said, I, I work at BDO and I specifically look after elements like strategic risk, enterprise risk management. When I work with clients, typically working with management teams, with boards, with heads of risks and CROs and really helping get a better An integrated view of the risk landscape that then helps drive really good decision making and, not just mitigate.
[00:01:52] Against the threats and challenges that are coming your way, but really also use risk as an opportunity and really as an enabler to see how you can [00:02:00] grow the business and innovate it. So it's, it's kind of, risk isn't just a bad thing, it's got a number of different facets and how you bring that to conversations with different teams, right.
[00:02:11] Those who sit on boards and the management teams who are incredibly strategic and look, look at that big picture element, but then also thinking about, well, how does that actually go throughout your business? What is the operational lens in terms of how you bring that to life? And then ultimately connect that to the culture of the organization.
[00:02:28] So that's what I do.
[00:02:29] Helen Wada: making risk fun. Is that what it's all about? And he said something like that.
[00:02:32] Alisa Vozyana: It's, it's definitely about risk being fun.
[00:02:35] Risk Management and Business Growth
[00:02:35] Alisa Vozyana: It's always that,
[00:02:37] Helen Wada: but taking that upper level because ultimately, you know, whilst you're working in BDA, you effectively, you've described it yourself as you are running your own business within a business, right?
[00:02:47] And, and with that comes the need to generate opportunities. Identify clients to work with, who can you add value to? Tell us a little bit about your career. 'cause [00:03:00] I can see you thriving in what you're doing, but I also work with a number of people that you get to a certain point and then we go, okay, well what does that mean?
[00:03:08] How have you got to where you've got to?
[00:03:10] Alisa Vozyana: Well,
[00:03:11] I,
[00:03:12] I,
[00:03:12] I, suppose it's not a particularly linear journey, so maybe in that sense. It. I thrive in these conversations around risk for the reason of my journey being, you know, potentially all over the place, but I guess. Where it all starts is I really wanted to be a professor, right?
[00:03:30] I really wanted to be an academic. Thinking about those broader conversations, you know, how do we see the world from a political perspective? I studied corruption. I did a PhD in that, not that I have a PhD on how to do corruption, but how do I identify it and how to support others in order to overcome the challenges that come with it.
[00:03:49] But ultimately, I really needed, I felt like I needed to have more of a dynamism, maybe less kinda longer term view of what this means from a research perspective.
[00:03:59] Personal and Professional Development
[00:04:04] Alisa Vozyana: But what does this mean in the real world? I really felt that separation between theory from an academic perspective and the reality in terms of the interactions, what businesses.
[00:04:08] Did. And actually because I'm a Russian speaker, I speak Russian as my first language, one of my first jobs finishing my my PhD was to get into corporate intelligence and kind of in a forensic setting, right? So integrity due diligence really unpicking some of the different puzzle pieces to figure out.
[00:04:26] Why things have gone wrong or how they can potentially go wrong, which is really fascinating. Looking at, you know, Ukraine and Russia and Kazakhstan they were emerging markets for that point.
[00:04:36] Helen Wada: fascinating time.
[00:04:38] right.
[00:04:38] With everything going, you know,
[00:04:41] Alisa Vozyana: it,
[00:04:41] was, it was something else, to be honest. Right.
[00:04:43] So I think I was a very useful party guest in terms of the conversations you could have. I used to work with human intelligence sources. My job was to find information that nobody else could find, right in so. it was Brilliant for that time in my life. It was fantastic.
[00:04:58] But
[00:04:59] things have kind of [00:05:00] switched a little bit and there's an element of that where I found working with really large organizations, there's always a question mark.
[00:05:06] Well, you know, the things that I'm finding by having an impact does it, does it, does it really ma matter if they're not in a crisis situation, which often is where I would be brought in and actually what happens, what learnings do we take away after. A crisis happens. And you know, from a personal perspective, coincided after I had children and I wanted to do a more proactive role, right.
[00:05:26] In that advisory space, thinking about how do you make sure some of these things don't happen in the first place, right? So avoid any kind of forensic investigations in the first place, but also how can you use that lens of risk to challenge your own thinking, right? To actually see from a different.
[00:05:47] Perspective and mindsets and not just, oh, everything's gonna go terribly wrong, but if we have an appetite for risk in this way, what can we achieve? Right? What else can we actually strike out? And so that was a way where, [00:06:00] again, there was an opportunity. Some, sometimes timing is everything to take up a role like this, and this is where actually you and I work together.
[00:06:07] um, And the following that, I, I was recruited to come and media and set that up as a practice and working more broadly across different sectors and, and looking at it that way.
[00:06:16] way.
[00:06:17] Helen Wada: such a fascinating journey. And I think what's really interesting is you are now, you set up that practice, right?
[00:06:24] You are running the business. We're gonna go back and we're gonna be talking about building business.
[00:06:28] Human Element in Business
[00:06:28] Helen Wada: What does it mean to be human at work in a moment? But actually you've come from. Of deep knowledge, deep expertise. The PhD that you, you did, the practical experience that you had, and then you are almost now flipping to say, actually this is a different type of role because I need to be out there and I need to be adding value and work with clients.
[00:06:49] how do you find it different now running that business compared to when you started? What is it that you need to be doing?
[00:06:57] Alisa Vozyana: So I, I think the way that [00:07:00] it's strange and that's probably having to do with elements of what I've learned on the job, but also an element of personal growth, right? Starting out and being the head of something for the first time.
[00:07:09] And there's inevitably an element of, and we've talked about possibly imposter syndrome, possibly, you know, do I bring the right level of expertise to the right people within that organization and kind of, figuring it out as you go along. I think what has changed since then is the, the experiential element, right?
[00:07:30] The more you do something, the more you get it as a muscle memory. So even when you're faced into new situations, you feel confident going into that uncertainty, which is exactly what my business is, is advising you to what you do in, in an uncertain environment. And that. Is probably everything for me in terms of how I interact, how I go out to the market, how I speak to my colleagues in terms of know, what, what is it that I do?
[00:07:55] How they advocate on my behalf? And that's been a really powerful change. And it [00:08:00] wasn't, it wasn't like a one day switch for it. Of course not. But almost kind of looking back on it and reflecting with you, I can see that the iteration and the fact where you just developed some of these atomic habits and you've driven them day in and day out.
[00:08:15] They have really come to fruit and give you a feedback mechanism to then continue growing in, in a similar direction but doing new things with the same level of confidence, I suppose.
[00:08:24] Helen Wada: and
[00:08:24] I think that really linked neatly to what we talk about at the human advantage.
[00:08:30] Building Trust and Client Relationships
[00:08:30] Helen Wada: And we've, we've had this conversation around what does it mean to be human at work?
[00:08:34] And I'm, I'm gonna get your opinion on that in a moment. but One of the thesis or the thesis that we have is around, actually, it's not about telling people what to
[00:08:44] Alisa Vozyana: do differently.
[00:08:46] Helen Wada: It's about learning, it's about coaching, it's about getting curious. and. that for me is where the human side comes in and we talk about, you know, h is [00:09:00] is the how you show up.
[00:09:01] how are you confident in what you do? You know, the U is. How do we get to understand others, you know, getting under understand what are the risks, what are the opportunities, what's going on for them, and what skills do you need to get and dive deeper
[00:09:15] Alisa Vozyana: into
[00:09:17] Helen Wada: It's then about your mindset, right? What mindset.
[00:09:21] Do you need to have to be able to go into these conversations and that sort of deal with the impossible, what is it, you know, commercially focused, but coaching at heart, you know, the two really are entwined and then getting into the conversation, act, adapting, then taking it forward, right? So we've got that.
[00:09:40] approach to go, do you know what, actually, it's not one size fits all. It's about finding out what's important to you, what's important to clients, ultimately coming back to being more human at work. 'cause I think, certainly where I sit and what I've seen over the past, however many [00:10:00] years and with others is, is that sort of sales piece is, is seen as almost beating the stick rather than being human.
[00:10:09] And actually for me, we have to combine the two. It's about, you know, how can we be human centered and commercially focused?
[00:10:17] Alisa Vozyana: And, and actually it's, to your point, Hal, I think this is really, really important to bring that out. Because we're so focused, certainly in terms of what I do and my colleagues do on being very clear on our competence and our level of expertise because we're so.
[00:10:32] You know, we, we to a certain extent are measured in terms of what we know. Do we know how to deliver this? Do we know how to support you? How do we compete, you know, across a, quite a big space of, of others in that space. And I think we have prioritized that to extent where we have negated the human element.
[00:10:51] But actually, and I think you and I have talked about this in the past. That is an important element of what influences others to listen to you, to kind of [00:11:00] understand what you're saying, how you're coming across. But it's not, first of all, it's not the only one and certainly not the most important element of how.
[00:11:07] People get influenced, uh, you know what it is they choose to buy, how they choose to proceed with their relationship. Right. And I think there's a really big element of how we need to refocus that attention and bring back the in, not being afraid to think about the individual essentially. Right? Not just who we are, ourselves as individuals, but actually who's the individual that we're facing into, right.
[00:11:30] rather that be you know, two competent experts meeting, thinking about, well, what else did we bring to the table to actually create something that does create a significant amount of influence, which is trustworthiness?
[00:11:42] Helen Wada: And, and I talk about, you know, what does it mean to you personally? What does it mean to you professionally?
[00:11:47] Because the two, you are one individual, but you have professional ambitions, you have business goals, but you are also a human being. Take it a step back.
[00:11:56] Coaching and Emotional Intelligence
[00:11:56] Helen Wada: What does being human at work mean to you? If we're to unpack it? What does being human at work mean to you?
[00:12:01] Alisa Vozyana: It is really interesting because you separated the two.
[00:12:03] You said there's a professional element and the personal element. And that's certainly how I used to view it as well. And I think over the last maybe two years, I'm finding that my approach is probably fairly stable. Both across both and
[00:12:18] Helen Wada: nice.
[00:12:19] Alisa Vozyana: For a really strange reason. I had to collect feedback from both colleagues and friends in terms of.
[00:12:24] So how I show up to be my best self. And it was striking the similarities and the trends in terms of what they were feeding back to me both, you know, my strengths, but also as constructive feedback. So that allows you to have the authenticity when you go into professional conversations, which means you don't need to do, you don't need to go from system one to system two.
[00:12:45] You're actually already occupying that space.
[00:12:48] Helen Wada: Absolutely. And I, and I think, and I feel very grateful that I've got to that space through the journeys and the coaching
[00:12:55] that I've had. But as we talked about at the beginning, it's a journey that we've [00:13:00] been on. And I think certainly for others, you know, there, used to be this, you know, who do you leave at the door?
[00:13:08] But actually, you know, with Gen Z coming in, with people coming up through, it's, we are who we are. But how do you use that in building and establishing relationships? Because ultimately you talked about trustworthiness. Yes, there's what we know.
[00:13:29] But it's also about how do you connect
[00:13:33] and what makes you successful to.
[00:13:36] WIG in the market.
[00:13:38] Alisa Vozyana: Well, agreed. And, and look, I'm, I'm not going to assume that my approach works with everyone and in fact I know it doesn't 'cause I've had some feedback. Right. We're always gonna have specific elements where, you know, there is a connection stronger with certain s than others.
[00:13:52] But I think to go back to your question and say, what does. You know, being human at work mean for me and, and again, they are [00:14:00] connected, right? So for me it's a combination of the awareness and understanding that for this empathy that we're all individuals, right? And for me, what I really mean by that is that.
[00:14:11] Look, it can be something, something is happening to us that day and we show up ready to go, or absent-minded, or do you know what I mean? E even just itself, but just the broader element of what is it that we bring in the room as our past, is our triggers, but also as our glimmers, right? Which is the opposite of triggers.
[00:14:28] What are the things that give us deliver And thinking about. Being empathetic to the different levels of emotional intelligence and resilience that people bring. 'cause that's so important. We cannot make this assumption that we're level. Right? And, and, and, and being, because one of the really, really helpful pieces of feedback that I got, and it was from a friend actually, she said, one of the things that you do well is.
[00:14:54] You see the person for who they are without a judgment attached, not good, [00:15:00] not bad. This is who you are. And you base the interaction off the back of this without anything else kind of built into it. And she said, and you know, and that's really important because it allows that individual just to relax.
[00:15:13] be themself and not have to create something else in order to have that interaction. Right. Which is really important because in a way, we're all wearing different costumes or masks or personas when we come into the professional setting, right? Regardless even if you're really comfortable in blending the two.
[00:15:30] And I think those are the key elements of. You know, that's a lot to keep in your head as you're coming in for a coffee.
[00:15:37] Helen Wada: but it's something that, that I, we, we, I talk about in the book, but it's about how do you need to be. Not necessarily what you need to do. So it's that how you show up, getting confident, reminding yourself and, and asking colleagues and friends is great because actually we, we don't always recognize what we are great at.
[00:15:58] Why do people like to work with [00:16:00] us? You know, collecting that, reminding yourself, writing that down, because that's how we show up. That's dh, right? That gives us the confidence. But once you get to these conversations and someone, yeah, we all have tricky conversations, particularly if it's something that's important to us.
[00:16:15] Not even if it's just a, revenue generating opportunity, but it's something that's important to us at home, we, we feel anxious, we feel worried because actually it means a lot. And so actually that, you know, I draw a square box, but that EQ of how do we need to be, what do we need to let go of at the door?
[00:16:34] How we show up at our best?
[00:16:37] Unstructured Conversations and Opportunities
[00:16:37] Alisa Vozyana: To
[00:16:37] Helen Wada: able to have that connection and create the trust to be able to create, and this is where the coaching comes in, again, to create the safe space where both you and your potential clients and team members can ultimately be vulnerable and share what's on their mind.
[00:16:57] Because going back to that, you know, what is an [00:17:00] opportunity? How do you win business? You need to understand what people are struggling with or what the opportunities are. And, and if you are not asking the right questions and you're not listening, then you can be often a tangent. I think we've all been there you've tried to solve the wrong problem, right?
[00:17:15] Alisa Vozyana: and I think that's a really important point to make.
[00:17:17] as well. there's, there's almost a couple of things that I picked up when you were talking, right, as you say, coming up into a room. You could be raring to go, you know, I've done some research. I know this is what your problem is, da da da da, da. Kind of just diving straight into that and you know, I, I've done that in the past as well.
[00:17:32] And that actually almost immediately may turn off the other person 'cause there's just zero active listening or any kind of curiosity to what it may be. There's another element of, as you said, the coaching piece of. Actually trying to figure out what's going on because the initial question and the problem statement that may have been brought to the room by the client isn't the ultimate problem statement.
[00:17:51] And it could be for a couple of reasons. One of them is actually, it is something else. And I think, I don't remember which book it came from, but I loved it. It was, you know how you need [00:18:00] to show up and ask these questions and you know what's on your mind, which is a really good way to ask something rather than, how are you?
[00:18:06] Right, fine. What's on your mind? You have to reply, but then come back a little while later and say what's really on your mind? Right? Because I think the first response you get is the response that's curated, the response that they think you may want to hear. It's what you know, but actually there may be an underlying thing.
[00:18:24] And one of the, another thing that I, I've heard from another partner, right? And saying, part of our job isn't necessarily just to solve that problem. It's to support that person looking good in their environment. Right? Looking
[00:18:36] Helen Wada: Gie.
[00:18:37] Alisa Vozyana: Successful. So, so, and that's the other element. It's, that's the, that the emotional being, right?
[00:18:43] Solving for that emotional challenge that individual is encountering. Of course it could be a structural, organizational, technical, anything problem. Which is why they're consulting you, but it's always detached to something that's very personal to them. And it may come from, you know, a very [00:19:00] strong place 'cause they're very passionate about it or may come from a of uncertainty or insecurity.
[00:19:06] And how you help them feel in that moment actually is over time something that will help create that trustworthiness that we've touched on. Yeah. No,
[00:19:16] Helen Wada: and, and that comes back to that sort of personal professional, because actually a professional goal is maybe the project or but actually personally to them, maybe it's the route to a new job or maybe there's gonna be a restructure and there might be jump in leading the job.
[00:19:35] this is an opportunity for them to show what they they're capable of or whatever it may be. Right. It's, it's unpicking. So why is that important? And, and again, those coaching skills of diving deeper going into underneath. Okay, so what else? Anything else, anything And in a coaching space, that's what I do as a DNA, right?
[00:19:56] That's where we've got to the human advantage and why we [00:20:00] bring, I bring the two together because when people said, why are you good at what you did, I had no idea why I was good at what I did. I didn't know. I never wanted to be in sales. I never, but when I unpicked it, what was I doing? I was creating a safe space.
[00:20:14] I was knowing who I was what I I could confidently deal with any conversation that was coming up along the way. I didn't know where it was gonna go. because that's what happens to coaching. That you unpicking and you're unpicking and you're going deeper. And that's the key to be able to start to understand, okay, so what really matters?
[00:20:31] To be able to then offer your challenge and insight
[00:20:36] Alisa Vozyana: that
[00:20:37] Helen Wada: might give us to, build that sense of trust. To say, okay, so what's next? Is there something that I could potentially help with you and help you look good?
[00:20:45] Alisa Vozyana: good? And, and again, Helen, I think you really nailed it there because the art of this because, 'cause like you, there's some elements of this, which have been very intuitive to me, but I really wanted to understand why does it work?
[00:20:57] So I worked back from my experience and [00:21:00] looked into the different elements of research. But one of the things that you, and I, I love,
[00:21:03] Helen Wada: you can tell you're a researcher at heart. See, see, I'm not, you've got PhD I dunno. I, I've just done the book and when they said, what about research? yeah. Um, As it happens there's about 185 I can't quite believe, but,
[00:21:15] Alisa Vozyana: Don't put them into the footnotes.
[00:21:17] It's too short.
[00:21:20] Helen Wada: Sorry. Coming back into your research and
[00:21:23] what you did.
[00:21:24] Alisa Vozyana: but, I think what you were saying is around, and you didn't say it this way, but it's around the unstructured conversation, and
[00:21:31] so you and I probably feel fairly comfortable in this, but a lot of people don't, including the people that we.
[00:21:37] Talk to ourselves. Right. And actually it's an art of managing that unstructured conversation because of course we're there, we're having a commercial discussion, but we're also individuals. And I've had really interesting tangents in the way that it's come back to actual potential opportunities. You know, how do everything, you know, I have a couple of clients that every time we meet up we really share Fantastic [00:22:00] book recommendations. Every time I come away with like a stack of things I need to go buy and I love it and, and vice versa with others, it's, it's really around, okay, here's my actual challenge. This is what I own, but I really want to understand the thinking around it. Can you yourself or connect me to the people where they're facing into some of the same challenges?
[00:22:19] Right? So creating, you know.
[00:22:21] Building Peer Networks and Trust
[00:22:21] Alisa Vozyana: Corridors back into our firm for expertise that already exists, but sometimes not even that. Creating corridors for peer networks, which I think has been really powerful because again, it comes back to that idea of how are you creating, taking that vulnerability of, I may not know, and creating trustworthiness say, you're not alone.
[00:22:40] Others face into this, and this is a lot of the round tables that I. Run for risk. That, that's the whole crux around it. I'll have a piece of inside that I kind of coalesced around, but the huge element of why people come is because they can talk to their peers and share their own vulnerability, which, you know, I just, I'm kind of a facilitator in that regard.
[00:22:59] And, [00:23:00] but that helps build the relationships between them and how they communicate, what it is that they develop that they want to think about. But also how that comes back to, you know, me specifically as an individual, but BDL is a firm that fosters an environment where we create those opportunities for them to communicate with each And, and it's fascinating how you do that and what you do, because there's a couple of things building on that. There's, there's number one.
[00:23:23] The Importance of Long-Term Relationships
[00:23:23] Helen Wada: is when you're building relationships that they talk about relationship into revenue. That's not just about, here I am, this is what I do, here's project it, it's about thinking about that whole person, right?
[00:23:35] It's coming back to the, being human. What's gonna help them? The connections across the industries or sharing that people are facing similar issues. It's thinking about them as individuals. It's, it's not short term. And I think this is one of the things that. Quite frankly, not just professional services, but beyond.
[00:23:53] Um, And the first ever guest I had in my podcast was a brilliant lady called Kaf Bishop, who wrote the book called The Long Win [00:24:00] and former Olympic Rower. But actually our, our sustainable success is, is being sort of hindered by our focus on short term metrics because we are not actually thinking long term.
[00:24:12] So, so there's one piece that says actually building the relationships and building the revenue. Thinking longer term about how you can connect to each other, how you can prove your value in that is, is number one.
[00:24:25] Creating Safe Spaces for Learning
[00:24:25] Helen Wada: And then number two, it's that creating a safe space that we do in a coaching environment, that learning from each other, that building muscles.
[00:24:32] Because you can't just go into a room these days and listen to a webinar. I mean, there's so much stuff online, so many podcasts, you know, we, one of them. I'd hope you know, but. It's about doing it yourself. It's about practicing. It's a learning. It's about asking questions and getting curious and facilitating those conversations in a way that puts you at the heart of me thinking of others.[00:25:00]
[00:25:00] The Power of Vulnerability in Business
[00:25:00] Alisa Vozyana: And,
[00:25:00] and part of this, Helen, is really key, is not just sharing celebrations and the successes and where it all went wrong, a lot of the way that. I create a bond and a relationship is actually being very upfront about where it went, being upfront, about where it went wrong, and it has been wrong, right?
[00:25:19] Because one of the things that I want to take into my conversation as a meeting is not that. I know what it looks like. I want to show them I know what it feels like. Right?
[00:25:29] Yeah.
[00:25:30] Uh, and that's really important 'cause it's not about just the design and the theory and the success. I just had a couple conversations I had earlier this today.
[00:25:38] Yeah. We all know how to create this. How do we live this? So a, you know, a lot of the advice that I give from a risk management perspective. There are lots of things and artifacts actually can find online. why do these programs not work? is because you need to have how do you implement it and embed it?
[00:25:56] What does it feel like? And from the experiences that I've had over my career, right. [00:26:00] Is, and I get this because I'm also incredibly impatient, so my coaches tell me like, here's the impatient. um. But, but I also coach in that way as well, right? This is not a three month program. You will complete this in three months, but it'll take 18 months to settle in.
[00:26:14] And here are the interventions that you need to continue throughout this time in order for this actually to take, right?
[00:26:20] Cultivating Relationships and Business Development
[00:26:24] Alisa Vozyana: now. it's not, I guess like, look, I haven an allotment, right? I think we've talked about this before. That I am perpetually being kicked off, of, but just managed to survive. But here, I guess
[00:26:29] Helen Wada: you, you obviously use those influencing skills, right?
[00:26:32] Alisa Vozyana: Yeah. It's a dumb reply to the emails. No, but, but I guess the, for me, it, it's a very good metaphor, right? Because I think a lot of the work that we do, and not just in risk management, but in other elements of what we do from a consulting advisory perspective is you sow the seeds, right? You sow the seed. that's the beginning.
[00:26:49] But if you sow the seeds and never bothered to go weed or water, or make sure that, you know, it's protected from caterpillars, it's not gonna go anywhere, right? It's just gonna die and not [00:27:00] initially.
[00:27:01] So
[00:27:01] Helen Wada: that's kind of like my plants, like, I'd like to think my business from my plants, but yeah,
[00:27:06] Alisa Vozyana: I, I won't be sharing any pictures of mine either.
[00:27:09] But the idea is that you have to cultivate it. Right. And, and cultivating is incredibly difficult, right? And so if you cultivate it, who do you have there? You know, if you're doing it by yourself, it's very lonely. So part of what I do, even if it's part of the job or it's part of that sounding board, is checking in, say, are you okay?
[00:27:27] What's going on? Should we have a chat? Right? And, and this is the feedback that I get most often, is that you come to me when you don't need anything from me, right? And I appreciate it. So when I do need something, I think of you. Which it sounds really basic, but because look, we all live in a super, super busy, quick, fast-paced world, right?
[00:27:50] And we have these pressures. You said the metrics. The metrics are short term. So when someone says Go, go, right? Okay, go be out on the market. Let's, okay, I need to go meet, da, da, [00:28:00] You know, do you have any opportunities? But in a way, I think, and again, we've talked about this, I have a consistent way that I look at it.
[00:28:06] Of course, there'll be sprints different times. Different things coming out. But every week I have time set aside where I think about who would be the specific people I wanna reach out to this week. Right. What is it that I wanna talk to them about? Thinking back the last conversation that we had and I do, and then, you know, we'll meet up and have a meeting and.
[00:28:26] almost off the back of most um, not necessarily leads to work for me, but they're definitely in these two conversations with somebody else in the firm. And that's, you know, for me, that's the best thing I could, do actually, I was thinking of a couple of examples. There was one, and this is kind of the, the longer term, but the importance of that bond is there.
[00:28:45] Someone I was working with created really good. Relationship there was a great opportunity, but actually at, at some point we were conflicted and I was asked to kind of cool that relationship from tie. And as soon as I was given the great, the green light in, in the meantime, I still reached out to that individual [00:29:00] saying, oh, I saw this article, thought of you, you know, come to this round table, do this.
[00:29:04] And then as soon as I was no longer conflicted, immediately reached out. Within a week we had a project conversion for another part of the business that was. It was just that, you know, part of it was timing, By that time it wouldn't have mattered if we hadn't created that, you know, fertile ground for those conversations.
[00:29:22] And the fact that he didn't have to catch up with me knowing sort of what my thinking was. It's, it is, it's that, you know, it's that resilience. And I talk about that in the book. It's, it's, it's a different type of skill. It's a human skill because even any of us going to the gym or doing it, it's hard.
[00:29:39] Helen Wada: Right. And so having a collective, and that's where I'd. Go back to the group coaching that we do. 'cause actually finding accountability partners working with somebody else. Have you done this? Oh no, god, I haven't done that, but I'm talking to Alisa on Friday. I had better do that. You know, it gives you that sort of motivation to keep going.
[00:29:58] And then have a systemic way [00:30:00] of reviewing it. Well, what worked, what didn't work? How might you reframe it? Some you win, some you don't. But what do you reframe from that? What might you look at it in a different way and then you repeat it, right? You go again. And, and all these skills are ultimately muscles that you're building.
[00:30:18] Right? These are, these are human muscles. we haven't taught much about selling here. We are just talking about connection. We're talking about relationships. We're talking about what we need to do to, to ultimately be human. You've clearly got to a place where you are comfortable, you thrive on it.
[00:30:37] You know, I can see it in the way that you describe it. What's got you to where, if we're gonna unpick that just for a moment, what? What's made the difference for you?
[00:30:55] The Role of Resilience and Vulnerability
[00:30:55] Alisa Vozyana: So, and, and I don't know if this is repeatable, Helen, right? In terms of like, I don't know if it's something that could be replicated [00:31:00] because it's quite a potentially unique experience for me, but because I have. Quite a diverse background. You know, I was born in Kazakhstan, immigrated to Canada, immigrated to the uk.
[00:31:11] I have a broad kind of range of interests. One of the things that I've learned, and, and again, I I grew into it, it wasn't overnight.
[00:31:20] it was to get comfortable into learning. Into leaning into different parts of my identity. So not putting on kind of different me for a specific situation.
[00:31:32] Yeah.
[00:31:33] Excuse me.
[00:31:34] But thinking about, oh, I can build that connection with that individual. Right. But that meant. getting comfortable, being vulnerable.
[00:31:43] Yeah.
[00:31:44] And that, and I think probably that's, and you will know this better than me, sort of the, the work that, you know, Brene Brown does around Vulnerability. That was really cathartic because it's not something you think about in the business space, but actually, why not?[00:32:00]
[00:32:00] Helen Wada: Oh
[00:32:01] Alisa Vozyana: Yeah.
[00:32:02] Helen Wada: Absolutely, and it's that, it's that knowing how to show. It comes back to the how are you showing up, how much do you let yourself in, in terms of. How much do you show of you when you are speaking to others? I talk about a window where you've got sort of curtains on the side, you're protecting yourself, but actually how can you build that connection?
[00:32:26] Actually it's by sharing a bit more of who you are and in order to share a bit more of who you are, A, you need to know who you So you need to do the work on yourself first. And I think that's another fundamental that we are all different. What's right for you is not right for me. It's not right for Jane or John or or whoever, but it's about taking time in a coaching sense to explore who you are and what matters to you.
[00:32:52] And then once you are, are comfortable with that and it does take is opening up your window. Opening up a [00:33:00] bit of that vulnerability to make the connections with your team, with your clients.
[00:33:06] Alisa Vozyana: And part of it is that the vulnerabilities is and luck. we can always talk about it and depends how success looks. part of it is shelving the ego as well.
[00:33:15] I'm, a very. Goal oriented, you know, high achieving individual that has a destination in mind. Actually, that's one of the things that I really had to rethink about the destination versus journey and you know, as you said, getting to know yourself. But one of the things that's worked really well, and again, absolutely floored me when it happened in a commercial setting wasn't my idea, but I think I now do this quite frequently, but sometimes reaching out to individuals were actually.
[00:33:42] Clients or target clients or something where maybe things haven't gone like brilliantly, right? And, and you're thinking, oh God, I just want this to go away and never think about this again. as just, you know, into the memory banks. But one of the things that I've learned is that how powerful that resilience on New York Park can actually be as a [00:34:00] comeback story to that relationship.
[00:34:01] I have a couple of situations where I've done that, where something potentially hasn't gone right for whatever reason. But then. Taking the opportunity to reach out to that individual with some insight or to congratulate on, you know, some milestone that's happened. And I had one particular story where the project was fine, but business wasn't a different space to actually be able to successfully implement it.
[00:34:23] And, you know, it, wasn't the best way that it got fitted. But then I reached out to the CEO. I dunno, six months later, because something quite exciting was happening for them and, and just immediately came back saying, great, let's meet up. Let's have a chat, da da da. I actually ended up being somebody who came in and supported me in delivering a really interesting dinner for number of other CFOs, right?
[00:34:46] Being the guest sneaker and actually being somebody who was was really vulnerable themselves. To actually be supportive towards me when I was kind of going through, you know, a difficult commercial time. [00:35:00] And it was brilliant because, 'cause we always think about what, what role do we play in terms of coach and counsel, but not forget that taking our own ego out of the equation can create unpredictable outcomes.
[00:35:12] And that person was brilliant. And kind of connecting to others and bringing in opportunities by being an advocate for me and for our business.
[00:35:22] Connecting and Networking for Success
[00:35:22] Helen Wada: And, and it's that, that networking you know, that you are constantly filling and talk about constantly filling the hopper
[00:35:30] Alisa Vozyana: and
[00:35:30] Helen Wada: it's not just about what you're doing, what you're delivering, but it's about constantly feeling, f fueling the hopper with conversations.
[00:35:39] And I talk about this one conversation at a time. You never know where one conversation is gonna get
[00:35:44] to,
[00:35:44] Alisa Vozyana: Okay.
[00:35:45] Helen Wada: but. It. It comes out and it's so true. How have I built the business where I am today? One conversation at a time and that comes out in the book. It's like, okay, I dunno where this is gonna go. I'm just gonna get curious.
[00:35:57] And is it an opportunity? Yes, [00:36:00] no, maybe who might they find of interest? Who should I go and meet? and how do you then start to connect the dots? 'cause all the time you are learning and you are learning in the market. If you're thinking about. Going from scratch, which many people do, and they start with a financial year and they start with a book of zero or or limited.
[00:36:20] gotta get out there That you only learn what's happening in the market and what your customers need by having those conversations. And so sometimes I flip it on the head and say, it's not just about going out to, to find and scope that next
[00:36:35] Alisa Vozyana: actually,
[00:36:35] Helen Wada: it's about to get curious about what do we need to be thinking about.
[00:36:40] shaping and respond to what they may need in the future. And all about conversations.
[00:36:46] Alisa Vozyana: and, and exactly. Those conversations give you a broader view of what are the actual trends, right? You said conversation by conversation, and it's got you, you're not only going out in there and having this in terms of building those relationships around trustworthiness or [00:37:00] vulnerability, you're also, it, it's something that helps you build your own data set in terms of what's coming, what is important.
[00:37:08] What is absolutely flooring, everybody, we're actually meetings an outlier for that, for that specific individual or firm, right? Because then you, you can give that insight very clearly, but by constantly saying it was, it is really interesting for me because one of my coaches who's internally been a partner has been a partner for 35 years and.
[00:37:27] and.
[00:37:28] He frequently says to me, he's like, you forget sometimes your work will come from something that happened to you 25 years ago. Right, A Conversation you had. And it's interesting because part of that will be somebody remembering you or an advocacy, I think we've talked about this as well. There's a book by, and me, I have written a dog because I have bad memory, but it's by.
[00:37:46] Acid ula, it's called, it's called Likable Badass. It's, it's thinking about how women succeed in the Commercially. And one of her key advices is that, listen, and I think this probably touches on some of the conversations we [00:38:00] have around um. kindness when it comes to this. Like, what, what role does Kindness have in these roles?
[00:38:05] But one of her kind of recommendations is that. Don't just make this connection for yourself. Where can you leave that conversation? Who else can you connect them to? And she uses a really brilliant example of something that was honestly a four minute email for her has led to commercially like significant outcomes for the three people that got connected over that email.
[00:38:27] She just said, oh, I know this. You need to get in touch with them. And actually there was an integrated element of. that are businesses where she just advocated on behalf of two other people and connected them. And it groomed as something that actually in a way still feeds her business and they've created their own right.
[00:38:43] And that was just one story that cost her. She said, that cost me nothing. But has returned in multiples.
[00:38:50] Helen Wada: And
[00:38:50] Final Thoughts and Takeaways
[00:38:50] Helen Wada: So for me, and I'm really conscious of time. We, we could go on all day. You know, there's, it's about reframing how we think about winning work. For me it's that how do we frame the old style model of water sales look like to making it more human, more connected and more collaborative.
[00:39:12] And I think there's something there that says, actually. Let's all think about it in a different way. Ask yourself, as you know ask a question. I'm gonna flirt to you. What would your top tips, I'm gonna ask you for one top tip and one question for this as, as we close out.
[00:39:32] Alisa Vozyana: So the top tip, I'll probably come back to what I said earlier, so don't be afraid to lean into parts of your identity that help you connect.
[00:39:40] I think it's critical. 'cause You may be. surprised. Just how you know, diverse or complex, the people that you're facing into, right? We're not one dimensional. And sometimes having that little bit actually can open them up and lead to a really fantastic conversation that leads to that. Well, let's talk about this. You know, because a lot, a lot of our conversations are 50, [00:40:00] 50 minutes of everything chat in 10 minutes of what are we gonna do about what are the action points in terms of the actual business?
[00:40:08] And that's the best, right? Because everybody comes around. feeling Accomplished, but like they've had a brilliant interaction. So for me is, don't be afraid to be vulnerable around this. Right. it's critical. And, and the question I think it's really coming back to what I've been working on myself.
[00:40:24] So maybe it's a little bit too topical, but is it, is there anybody that you could think of reaching out, right, that maybe you've been thinking about reaching out for a while, but, but haven't, or actually thought, well, I dunno if that's the right connection. Right. Is that gonna be, is that gonna be a good person for you to connect with right now?
[00:40:41] I think that's really important because sometimes we put these things off and saying, oh, they won't reply. again, some of the best commercial successes, but also best stories I've had were just kind of had that internal confidence to be like, I'm gonna reach out to this person. Sometimes it's a CEO, sometimes it's somebody from my old [00:41:00] life who's gone in completely different direction, but it's been worth my while every single time.
[00:41:05] And it's kind of like getting off the sofa to go for a run. Do it. You gotta feel better at the end.
[00:41:09] end.
[00:41:10] Helen Wada: I love it. Thank you so much. We, we could keep the conversation going. I can't believe we've been going as long. it's been fabulous to have you on the show, Alisa. Really lovely to see you again. I look forward to further conversations ahead.
[00:41:23] Have a good afternoon.
[00:41:24] Alisa Vozyana: Thank you Helen. Thanks for the invitations. later.
[00:41:27] worries. Speak
[00:41:27] Helen Wada: later. will stop the recording.
[00:41:30] Alisa Vozyana: Okay.
[00:41:31] Helen Wada: And then we can have a good chat. Let me just see And then it uploads hopefully.